this one made me google eschatology. Possibly i’m not the only one. Nice thought that during end times everyone is sitting in their pew’s in a space suite waiting to go. What a waste of time.
the desire to be rescued from the castle rather than reclaim the castle… this way of looking at things is supported and encouraged by platonistic theology the world over. problem is, according to the bible, this isn’t god’s plan. as the crown of creation, we are supposed to be taking authority and responsibility for the planet… we are supposed to be engaging in god’s plan for a kingdom which is a renewed heaven and a renewed earth… but with the thought of escape as our vision we watch on as the world suffers, believing it to be destined to the scrapheap anyway.
Although, to be fair, some people’s ‘castle’ is nicer and easier to reclaim than others. I’ve had times when the thought of heaven is all that’s got me through … and I wouldn’t say that was a bad thing.
(another asbo-jesus reader who never comments on anything – ever)
visions of better things do help to pull us through bad times, that’s true.
but the kingdom of heaven is not somewhere else, and nor will it ever be. the kingdom starts here and now until one day it is all brought to completion by the renewal of all things. heaven and earth in union as they were in the beginning. god and his creation in perfect relationship again. those who have died and are with christ ressurected back to life in the renewed creation. that is the biblical vision, and the one that if the church stopped ignoring might actually be more relevant to people and their personal and global concerns.
Thanks. Increasingly, the rapture is one of those theological idiocies that I find most irritating . . . especially since you have to start splicing it all sorts of weird ways. In the “Left Behind” movie they had all the kids under age 7 raptured on general principle–what a horror! Parents w/out kids . . . and worse–some waffling 8 year old kid left behind when his parents were raptured? That’s not the God I know . . . that sort of theology fits more with Jesus raising an army and overthrowing the Roman Empire . . . Our pastor at the time said–half-jokingly–that what offended him the most was that the babies were raptured but that the dogs were left . . .
thank you, sara.
is there really a film called ‘left behind’?
this is a grievous misreading of the matthew text. that text says ’some will be left, some will be taken’… but it starts with ‘it will be as it was in the time of noah.’ and what happens in the time of noah?… bad is taken, good is left. man, there is so much bad theology in the world and it really messes up peoples lives and the health of the planet. people can say such hateful and spiteful things in the name of god and his love… but these theologies are loveless… they do not love creation, they do not love people… so, how is it they claim to be so in love with god if they don’t care about the things that he does?
Oh, man. You’ve been fortunate enough not to have run across the whole “Left Behind” franchise? It’s a series of (10 or so? I think) books and there’s been at least a couple of movies made from them. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. It’s “Christian” fiction that starts with the rapture and then tells the story of what’s supposed to happen on earth afterward. World war, antichrists, the Beast, etc. all explained for your convenience! The book of Revelation, a la John Grisham–except not written as well. They’re *all over* here on this side of the puddle . . . pushing pre-trib pre-millenial half baked nonsense on the unsuspecting . . .
this one made me google eschatology. Possibly i’m not the only one. Nice thought that during end times everyone is sitting in their pew’s in a space suite waiting to go. What a waste of time.
Comment by will — November 23, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
the desire to be rescued from the castle rather than reclaim the castle… this way of looking at things is supported and encouraged by platonistic theology the world over. problem is, according to the bible, this isn’t god’s plan. as the crown of creation, we are supposed to be taking authority and responsibility for the planet… we are supposed to be engaging in god’s plan for a kingdom which is a renewed heaven and a renewed earth… but with the thought of escape as our vision we watch on as the world suffers, believing it to be destined to the scrapheap anyway.
Comment by jonbirch — November 23, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Although, to be fair, some people’s ‘castle’ is nicer and easier to reclaim than others. I’ve had times when the thought of heaven is all that’s got me through … and I wouldn’t say that was a bad thing.
(another asbo-jesus reader who never comments on anything – ever)
Comment by kate — November 23, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
hi kate… thanks for commenting.
visions of better things do help to pull us through bad times, that’s true.
but the kingdom of heaven is not somewhere else, and nor will it ever be. the kingdom starts here and now until one day it is all brought to completion by the renewal of all things. heaven and earth in union as they were in the beginning. god and his creation in perfect relationship again. those who have died and are with christ ressurected back to life in the renewed creation. that is the biblical vision, and the one that if the church stopped ignoring might actually be more relevant to people and their personal and global concerns.
Comment by jonbirch — November 23, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
Thanks.
Increasingly, the rapture is one of those theological idiocies that I find most irritating . . . especially since you have to start splicing it all sorts of weird ways. In the “Left Behind” movie they had all the kids under age 7 raptured on general principle–what a horror! Parents w/out kids . . . and worse–some waffling 8 year old kid left behind when his parents were raptured? That’s not the God I know . . . that sort of theology fits more with Jesus raising an army and overthrowing the Roman Empire . . . Our pastor at the time said–half-jokingly–that what offended him the most was that the babies were raptured but that the dogs were left . . .
Comment by Sara — November 23, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
thank you, sara.
is there really a film called ‘left behind’?
this is a grievous misreading of the matthew text. that text says ’some will be left, some will be taken’… but it starts with ‘it will be as it was in the time of noah.’ and what happens in the time of noah?… bad is taken, good is left. man, there is so much bad theology in the world and it really messes up peoples lives and the health of the planet. people can say such hateful and spiteful things in the name of god and his love… but these theologies are loveless… they do not love creation, they do not love people… so, how is it they claim to be so in love with god if they don’t care about the things that he does?
Comment by jonbirch — November 23, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
Oh, man. You’ve been fortunate enough not to have run across the whole “Left Behind” franchise? It’s a series of (10 or so? I think) books and there’s been at least a couple of movies made from them. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. It’s “Christian” fiction that starts with the rapture and then tells the story of what’s supposed to happen on earth afterward. World war, antichrists, the Beast, etc. all explained for your convenience! The book of Revelation, a la John Grisham–except not written as well. They’re *all over* here on this side of the puddle . . . pushing pre-trib pre-millenial half baked nonsense on the unsuspecting . . .
Comment by Sara — November 23, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
terrifying.
Comment by jonbirch — November 24, 2007 @ 12:19 am
That series is just another fiction that people promoted and believe to be true.
It’s just another case of The Da Vinci Code.
I scarce belief that the author of the Left Behind series really do believe what they wrote.
Comment by zefi — November 24, 2007 @ 1:26 am
I’m afraid they do Zefi.
Sas x
Comment by Sarah — November 24, 2007 @ 1:31 am
genius!
Comment by Greymalkin — November 24, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
thank you!
Comment by jonbirch — November 25, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Worse: the Left Behind computer game. =D
Comment by Xenobiologista — November 25, 2007 @ 5:51 am
no!?!
Comment by jonbirch — November 25, 2007 @ 6:59 am
Yes.
It’s sick…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind:_Eternal_Forces
Comment by Laura — November 26, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
it is… very!
Comment by jonbirch — November 26, 2007 @ 5:53 pm