cheers laura!
hey lewis… you noticed batmans speech patterns! thanks! adam wests batman has a similar speech pattern to bill shatners kirk. both childhood heroes, and i still love’em now!
Those remind me of a lot of things I’ve heard said - things like, “I’d only risk/give/sacrifice like that if God told me to.” In those situations, I guess the Bible just doesn’t count as God telling us…
Not sure if you intended this but Batman and Robin are two of the most closeted cartoon characters ever drawn - their inability to be honest about their true same-sex feelings can be applied to too many clergy.
hi becky… sadly, too often the church doesn’t like its church figures to be ‘that’ honest…
my batman and robin are in the spirit of the camp tv show… and ‘yes’ they are fully in the closet… bless’em.
hey richard… i’ll visit you in blasphemy prison!
hi phil… sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking that god was a dictator the way people carry on. many, it seems, just love to be told what to do.
Holy cartoon capers…will Jon Birch still be able to blog his cartoons after this latest dynamic episode…or will he feel convicted to sit and wait and listen for a word from God!! Stay tuned for the next installment from the dynamic cartoon fiend that is Jon (aka - joker) Birch !?*%! Kapow!
Hey…shamefull plug.. Check out my blog (click my name). I’m trying to persuade interesting Christian artists to let me post full length songs. Had 100% success so far. David Crowder, Verra Cruz, Trump Dawgs (who?). More to come hopefully.
That hutch v puppet advert was on in the UK. it’s for that car insurance company with really “cheesy” adverts….can’t think of the name of it right now.
he goes up to the window of the car, mumbles something i never could figure out, and punches what i remember to be a puppet.
it’s quick though, so you may have just missed it.
Don’t sit around saving the gifts God’s given you for a rainy day either. Look outside - it’s bucketing! Actually that is literally the case here in Scotland and has been since I don’t know when. Hurry up, summer! Ax
lol - I like the way people on here think. Who would have thought this would lead to a discussion on branflakes and Shatner, with some WoW thrown in.
Youthwork magazine had a short article in a few months ago about how we (youthworkers) are encouraging young people to try to walk some kind of tightrope of God’s will, implying you MUST have a sense from God about what kind of toilet paper you buy - or any other decision.
Yes, i do believe some people get a powerful and direct calling about certain choices in their lives.
Mostly, though, I believe God gave us a brain, a very complex scripture, and an open relationship with Himself for a reason - and that’s not to be some kind of divine robots doing what we’er told every stap. Lets see what God has given us, and make some good choices that are consistent with our beliefs about God.
Which is, I think, what the cartoons are getting at.
At least, thats what they remind me of.
Comment by youthworkerpete — January 25, 2008 @ 10:40 pm
that’s exactly it ywp!
hey laura… i hope you meant ’saddo’ and not ’sado’. remembering stuff isn’t sad… i forget stuff all the time… now that’s sad!
About being `Churched`: I tell ya guys, I make a conscious effort every Sunday and most of the other times I meet with my brothas and sistas NOT to be nice, not to be religious, to swear and whatever if I need to, to be me in all my f****d-offness, zany happiness whatever.
The church is supposed to be THE place where you can be you, and others be them, the only rule being do to them as you’d want them to do to you. I tell ya I try really hard. Otherwise what’s the point.
I’m with you on that one Sas, church is supposed to be THE place where you can be you, (it’s such a tricky one though, as ten minutes into most sermons I want to yell ‘that’ll do, you judgmental, mollycoddled windbag’. fortunately there’s 2 great preachers at my church)
It is a while since i heard a judgmental mollycoddled windbag. I wonder if I sometimes assume that all preachers are like that because I have seen one or two in the past.
Hi Robb, your right for challenging my unkind comments about preachers, though I do feel frustrated about the way preaching is used in church.
I also feel frustrated at the way churches seem to encourage people to avoid watching flims/TV ect. which is why I called preachers ‘mollycoddled’, I find I take much more notice to people who refer to world/cultural events in their address.
No apology needed! I am pretty much on the same page. I think the real problem is that the whole service isn’t seen as being a journey taking us from a and putting us at b ready for the next week. The sermon can be used as an integral part of that.
I did an MA module on narative preaching that was really good. I’ll see if I posted anything on my blog (the old myspace one) about it when I am at home and can access it. Try having a read of The Spiritual @ventures of Cyber Cindy - I don’t think it is that good but it demonstrates the concept quite well. When I have done a narative sermon it is the one that people more often talk to me about afterwards.
hi Robb, good to talk seriously about what’s a good preach, I had a chat with a guy a while back, who said part of how we understand salvation now has been influenced by the ‘enlightenment’, in that rationalism became so dominant, like we subliminally organised faith into a ‘enlightened’ rational, as apposed to relational model.
There is, apparently, something inherently reductionistic about this way or organising things, although obviously it can be helpful to communicate ideas’ clearly. The guy went on to explain how the rich narrative and meaningful scripture is just more complex and multilayered.
I’m now wondering if the whole way we do church is more influenced by cultural norms and Modernism, than we acknowledge, and we might find different means, to build our faith and communal life, more effective. So am interested in your narrative sermon, in that I’m assuming your narrative style can be more multilayer and meaningful than a preach organised on 3 points, beginning with the letter P?
The enlightenment has changed the view christianity takes of its faith. Concrete answers and systematic theological explanation prevail. This goes against scripture [oh dear, jargon] as scripture uses different guidelines.
“Noah, how long were you gone for?”
“Don’t know, it felt like ages.”
“OK, I’ll put down forty days”
When the modern reader turns up they bring the question “is it true” without realising that “true” has many meanings. The writers of the NT and OT didn’t really care about figures.
Writer - “It was the third year in the reign of Tiberius.”
“But when was that Mr Writer, you say ‘It was the third year in the reign of Tiberius.’”
Writer - “I don’t know it was some time in the summer”
“but which summer?”
Writer - “but you’re missing the point, there was this guy and he did this”
“I don’t care about that - when was it.”
Most Christians seem to have all sorts of questions about scripture. Unfortunatly they are crap questions.
“when did Jonah go to Nineva?”
Who cares? What is it like to be called to do something that you despise so much that you will dig your heels in and shout at God “I hate you sooooo much for making me save these people that I’m just going to sit here and die!!!!!” What must he have been going through. What does it tell me about me? What does it tell me about God? What does it tell me about church leaders? What does it tell me about the struggles that others go through?
What does the evidence for faesability of survival in a fish tell me? What does an anecdote about some guy who was swallowed by a shark and survived but his skin was bleached tell me about God? Nowt. These are the wrong questions.
“Noah, how long were you gone for?”
“Don’t know, it felt like ages.”
“who was taking the service?”
“Oh, you know, that chap who goes on and on”
“well the roast ruined now, why can’t you go to a nice short service?”
cheers for your reply Robb, I know how different I feel by just letting myself get into the narrative, guess I started with Jan Johnson’s books on prayer, but once you let go of worrying about what things are supposed to mean, you can get into the meaning, guess I had to learn the formula to start with though.
the thing is, the more you tune into your own responsivness, the more present you are, and the more you hear. It starts with letting yourself trust your own views and feelings, and noticing the ‘conditions’ or ‘rules’ you’ve been listening to.
45, this kind of thing should be like really obvious shouldn’t it? But I know I’ve done it myself, asking the stupid questions, and it’s only as I’ve got older that I’ve been able to join everything together and realise that it’s only the important questions that are worth asking (and the only ones we’re gonna get answers for).
I think what we want is someone just to tell us a story. Like the Jews did. If I wanna find out the particulars I can do that in my own time. But when we get together, I want someone to read, like a letter, from someone I love, to me. And this is how I think about Paul’s “epistles” - as just letters from one friend to another - they’re what he went through, his experiences, if people think his stuff was wise enough to be included in the canon then fair enough, but I need to find that out for myself - I want to connect with the human Paul, and treat his words as a letter to a friend / sister across the miles and years. It’s not like it’s Jesus talking to me. But if it is, I want to and I’m going to find that out for myself, I’m not going to have somebody else tell me this is how I should think thank you very much!!!
OK hope that didn’t completely de-head you :-/, just need to say that.
LOL!!
Comment by Laura — January 25, 2008 @ 1:33 am
best…
batman comic…
ever.
Comment by Lewis — January 25, 2008 @ 1:55 am
cheers laura!
hey lewis… you noticed batmans speech patterns! thanks! adam wests batman has a similar speech pattern to bill shatners kirk. both childhood heroes, and i still love’em now!
Comment by jonbirch — January 25, 2008 @ 2:15 am
I always loved Robin. Now I know why. He’s the TV form of the Holy Spirit!
Yikes! I can hear the blasphemy police sirens coming up Cardiff Road now!!!
Comment by Richard — January 25, 2008 @ 3:04 am
Those remind me of a lot of things I’ve heard said - things like, “I’d only risk/give/sacrifice like that if God told me to.” In those situations, I guess the Bible just doesn’t count as God telling us…
Comment by Phil Smoke — January 25, 2008 @ 4:11 am
Not sure if you intended this but Batman and Robin are two of the most closeted cartoon characters ever drawn - their inability to be honest about their true same-sex feelings can be applied to too many clergy.
Comment by Becky — January 25, 2008 @ 4:22 am
hi becky… sadly, too often the church doesn’t like its church figures to be ‘that’ honest…
my batman and robin are in the spirit of the camp tv show… and ‘yes’ they are fully in the closet… bless’em.
hey richard… i’ll visit you in blasphemy prison!
hi phil… sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking that god was a dictator the way people carry on. many, it seems, just love to be told what to do.
Comment by jonbirch — January 25, 2008 @ 4:41 am
Genius
Comment by sonia — January 25, 2008 @ 5:41 am
I think one of the saddest things I ever saw was the mighty Captain Kirk reduced to advertising Bran Flakes…
Comment by Carole — January 25, 2008 @ 7:15 am
not as sad as “Hutch” punching out a puppet through a car window!!!!
Comment by Laura — January 25, 2008 @ 7:45 am
Don’t think I’ve sen that one, Laura. But really, Bran Flakes are such a geriatric breakfast cereal.
http://www.visit4info.com/details.cfm?adid=23041
But they do say that his bowels regularly function at WARP 9…
Comment by Carole — January 25, 2008 @ 8:09 am
Holy cartoon capers…will Jon Birch still be able to blog his cartoons after this latest dynamic episode…or will he feel convicted to sit and wait and listen for a word from God!! Stay tuned for the next installment from the dynamic cartoon fiend that is Jon (aka - joker) Birch !?*%! Kapow!
Comment by marcus — January 25, 2008 @ 8:29 am
always loved Joyce Meyer’s statement: if your waiting for God to tell you to give away $1000…he won’t mind if you do it without his permission.
Comment by amywatson — January 25, 2008 @ 8:39 am
Ah, that’s my day off to a good start
Comment by Nathan — January 25, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Some people are like frogs. Whenyou cook them you have to place them in old water and gradually heat the pan up so that they don’t jump out!!
Comment by Robb — January 25, 2008 @ 10:05 am
Damn this stupid keyboard!!
When you cook them you have to place them in *cold* water and gradually heat the pan up so that they don’t jump out!!
Comment by Robb — January 25, 2008 @ 10:05 am
hahaha!!! ‘old’, ‘cold’, funny both ways!!!
hi marcus… i’ll just do what ever the ‘voices’ tell me to.
amy… that’s wisdom that is.
thanks sonia, nathan.
carole… the great shatner was epic in that branflakes ad i’ll have you know!
warp nine bowel movements! hilarious!!! 
laura… hutch beating up a puppet? didn’t see that one. i feel somehow cheated.
Comment by jonbirch — January 25, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Carole….that’s what the Heisenberg Compensator’s for!
Sas x
Comment by sarah — January 25, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
“Shamen’s log supplemental”
- world of warcraft.
Comment by Robb — January 25, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Ha Ha!
One of the best yet…
Comment by Chris F — January 25, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
Oh the Humanity!
Hey…shamefull plug.. Check out my blog (click my name). I’m trying to persuade interesting Christian artists to let me post full length songs. Had 100% success so far. David Crowder, Verra Cruz, Trump Dawgs (who?). More to come hopefully.
Comment by steve — January 25, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
so… did the dude’s blood turn into a budweiser select crown or what?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=doT8nm4×67E
nice message in the cartoons as well
Comment by Jaybrams — January 25, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
it does look like that logo, doesn’t it.
Comment by jonbirch — January 25, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
That’s really funny.
Reminds me of loads of situations. Funny how people sometimes wait on the Lord when it’s oh so bloomin obvious already!
Comment by allatseawithabucketandspade — January 25, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
That hutch v puppet advert was on in the UK. it’s for that car insurance company with really “cheesy” adverts….can’t think of the name of it right now.
he goes up to the window of the car, mumbles something i never could figure out, and punches what i remember to be a puppet.
it’s quick though, so you may have just missed it.
maybe i’m the sado cause i do!
Comment by Laura — January 25, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Tee hee.
Don’t sit around saving the gifts God’s given you for a rainy day either. Look outside - it’s bucketing! Actually that is literally the case here in Scotland and has been since I don’t know when. Hurry up, summer! Ax
Comment by AnneDroid — January 25, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
lol - I like the way people on here think. Who would have thought this would lead to a discussion on branflakes and Shatner, with some WoW thrown in.
Youthwork magazine had a short article in a few months ago about how we (youthworkers) are encouraging young people to try to walk some kind of tightrope of God’s will, implying you MUST have a sense from God about what kind of toilet paper you buy - or any other decision.
Yes, i do believe some people get a powerful and direct calling about certain choices in their lives.
Mostly, though, I believe God gave us a brain, a very complex scripture, and an open relationship with Himself for a reason - and that’s not to be some kind of divine robots doing what we’er told every stap. Lets see what God has given us, and make some good choices that are consistent with our beliefs about God.
Which is, I think, what the cartoons are getting at.
At least, thats what they remind me of.
Comment by youthworkerpete — January 25, 2008 @ 10:40 pm
that’s exactly it ywp!
hey laura… i hope you meant ’saddo’ and not ’sado’.
remembering stuff isn’t sad… i forget stuff all the time… now that’s sad! 
Comment by jonbirch — January 26, 2008 @ 12:18 am
Too right YWP. Did Jesus sit around forever and wait for God to “lead” him? I think not!
Sas x
Comment by sarah — January 26, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Holy laughter Batman, that gave me a needed giggle!
Comment by thevikingfru — January 26, 2008 @ 2:48 am
Awesome.
Comment by Roland — January 26, 2008 @ 3:19 am
yeah, saddo, that’s what I meant(blushing)…
Comment by Laura — January 26, 2008 @ 6:17 am
tvfru… it’s good to giggle!
laura… i’m relieved.
cheers roland.
Comment by jonbirch — January 26, 2008 @ 9:22 am
thats a sharp one
Comment by subo — January 26, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Hurray for Batman. I demand more of this.
Comment by Maggi — January 26, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
there are more!!!
Comment by jonbirch — January 26, 2008 @ 7:25 pm
Ok, I have to browse the archive
Comment by Maggi — January 27, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
sorry maggi… i meant there are more coming. i hope you read this before you start your fruitless search. cheers!
Comment by jonbirch — January 27, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
About being `Churched`: I tell ya guys, I make a conscious effort every Sunday and most of the other times I meet with my brothas and sistas NOT to be nice, not to be religious, to swear and whatever if I need to, to be me in all my f****d-offness, zany happiness whatever.
The church is supposed to be THE place where you can be you, and others be them, the only rule being do to them as you’d want them to do to you. I tell ya I try really hard. Otherwise what’s the point.
Sas x
Comment by sarah — January 27, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
I’m with you on that one Sas, church is supposed to be THE place where you can be you, (it’s such a tricky one though, as ten minutes into most sermons I want to yell ‘that’ll do, you judgmental, mollycoddled windbag’. fortunately there’s 2 great preachers at my church)
Comment by su — January 28, 2008 @ 12:19 am
It is a while since i heard a judgmental mollycoddled windbag. I wonder if I sometimes assume that all preachers are like that because I have seen one or two in the past.
Comment by Robb — January 28, 2008 @ 9:29 am
Hi Robb, your right for challenging my unkind comments about preachers, though I do feel frustrated about the way preaching is used in church.
I also feel frustrated at the way churches seem to encourage people to avoid watching flims/TV ect. which is why I called preachers ‘mollycoddled’, I find I take much more notice to people who refer to world/cultural events in their address.
apologies for ranting
Comment by su — January 28, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
No apology needed! I am pretty much on the same page. I think the real problem is that the whole service isn’t seen as being a journey taking us from a and putting us at b ready for the next week. The sermon can be used as an integral part of that.
I did an MA module on narative preaching that was really good. I’ll see if I posted anything on my blog (the old myspace one) about it when I am at home and can access it. Try having a read of The Spiritual @ventures of Cyber Cindy - I don’t think it is that good but it demonstrates the concept quite well. When I have done a narative sermon it is the one that people more often talk to me about afterwards.
Comment by Robb — January 28, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
hi Robb, good to talk seriously about what’s a good preach, I had a chat with a guy a while back, who said part of how we understand salvation now has been influenced by the ‘enlightenment’, in that rationalism became so dominant, like we subliminally organised faith into a ‘enlightened’ rational, as apposed to relational model.
There is, apparently, something inherently reductionistic about this way or organising things, although obviously it can be helpful to communicate ideas’ clearly. The guy went on to explain how the rich narrative and meaningful scripture is just more complex and multilayered.
I’m now wondering if the whole way we do church is more influenced by cultural norms and Modernism, than we acknowledge, and we might find different means, to build our faith and communal life, more effective. So am interested in your narrative sermon, in that I’m assuming your narrative style can be more multilayer and meaningful than a preach organised on 3 points, beginning with the letter P?
Comment by su — January 28, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Amen!
The enlightenment has changed the view christianity takes of its faith. Concrete answers and systematic theological explanation prevail. This goes against scripture [oh dear, jargon] as scripture uses different guidelines.
“Noah, how long were you gone for?”
“Don’t know, it felt like ages.”
“OK, I’ll put down forty days”
When the modern reader turns up they bring the question “is it true” without realising that “true” has many meanings. The writers of the NT and OT didn’t really care about figures.
Writer - “It was the third year in the reign of Tiberius.”
“But when was that Mr Writer, you say ‘It was the third year in the reign of Tiberius.’”
Writer - “I don’t know it was some time in the summer”
“but which summer?”
Writer - “but you’re missing the point, there was this guy and he did this”
“I don’t care about that - when was it.”
Most Christians seem to have all sorts of questions about scripture. Unfortunatly they are crap questions.
“when did Jonah go to Nineva?”
Who cares? What is it like to be called to do something that you despise so much that you will dig your heels in and shout at God “I hate you sooooo much for making me save these people that I’m just going to sit here and die!!!!!” What must he have been going through. What does it tell me about me? What does it tell me about God? What does it tell me about church leaders? What does it tell me about the struggles that others go through?
What does the evidence for faesability of survival in a fish tell me? What does an anecdote about some guy who was swallowed by a shark and survived but his skin was bleached tell me about God? Nowt. These are the wrong questions.
Comment by Robb — January 29, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
“Noah, how long were you gone for?”
“Don’t know, it felt like ages.”
“who was taking the service?”
“Oh, you know, that chap who goes on and on”
“well the roast ruined now, why can’t you go to a nice short service?”
Comment by su — January 29, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
cheers for your reply Robb, I know how different I feel by just letting myself get into the narrative, guess I started with Jan Johnson’s books on prayer, but once you let go of worrying about what things are supposed to mean, you can get into the meaning, guess I had to learn the formula to start with though.
the thing is, the more you tune into your own responsivness, the more present you are, and the more you hear. It starts with letting yourself trust your own views and feelings, and noticing the ‘conditions’ or ‘rules’ you’ve been listening to.
Comment by su — January 29, 2008 @ 7:27 pm
Robb,
45, this kind of thing should be like really obvious shouldn’t it? But I know I’ve done it myself, asking the stupid questions, and it’s only as I’ve got older that I’ve been able to join everything together and realise that it’s only the important questions that are worth asking (and the only ones we’re gonna get answers for).
I think what we want is someone just to tell us a story. Like the Jews did. If I wanna find out the particulars I can do that in my own time. But when we get together, I want someone to read, like a letter, from someone I love, to me. And this is how I think about Paul’s “epistles” - as just letters from one friend to another - they’re what he went through, his experiences, if people think his stuff was wise enough to be included in the canon then fair enough, but I need to find that out for myself - I want to connect with the human Paul, and treat his words as a letter to a friend / sister across the miles and years. It’s not like it’s Jesus talking to me. But if it is, I want to and I’m going to find that out for myself, I’m not going to have somebody else tell me this is how I should think thank you very much!!!
OK hope that didn’t completely de-head you :-/, just need to say that.
Cheers
Sas x
Comment by sarah — January 29, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
Yeah Sas, something inspirational is going to get me through the next week. The inner workings of the synoptic problem isn’t.
De head me like a fish? Is that a fish I’m in or one for my tea?
Comment by Robb — January 30, 2008 @ 10:38 am
I’ll let you ponder that one Robb…!
Sas x
Comment by sarah — January 31, 2008 @ 12:03 am