520 & 521

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About jonbirch

animator, illustrator, character designer, graphic designer. music producer/recording musician. co-owner of PROOST. proost.co.uk
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36 Responses to 520 & 521

  1. Hi Jon, this put me in mind of another sad tale being played out in Canada (e.g. http://www.anglicannetwork.ca/nr_052908.htm ).

    It strikes me that the way of Christ is for the “dissidents” to hand over the buildings willingly to the Diocese. And, moreover, for the Diocese then to sell them back to those same parishioners for, say, $5 – that sum being personally donated by the Bishop.

    But that’s easy for me to say: I’m not involved, and don’t really know which “side” I’d be on anyway.

  2. brett says:

    such appropriate scripture. imagine that, millennia old scripture actually speaking directly to our modern troubles.

  3. I guess you guys are referring to something I know nothing about but this blog really spoke to me today. Thanks Jon and thanks God for working in strange ways.

  4. James says:

    I know this is going off the topic a little.
    However, I know of instances where Christians have been getting beaten up in the streets on repeated occasions by the same people and have taken them to court to put a stop to it, surly this can’t be wrong, can it?

  5. Miriworm says:

    Not sure he’d want it as it seems he already has more than enough suits to be going on with!

  6. Miriworm says:

    James (#4) I suppose that would depend on if it was another Christian (presumably not) doing the beating!

  7. Roger Mugs says:

    hey jon, just wanted to let you know that I tagged you (er… gave you an award) here:
    http://www.theologer.com/2008/07/passing-on-award.html

  8. Linus says:

    It is so annoying that whilst so many people try to force the bible to say all kinds of very definite things that it doesn’t, some of us are ignoring one of the very definite things that it does say. and causing lots of hurt and anger in the process. Lord have mercy.

  9. becky says:

    4. In this case it’s Dave Walker whose getting beat up by what seems to be an unjust system.

  10. JF says:

    Not to mention the Thong of Tholomon.

  11. subo says:

    how about the ‘Jeans of Justice,’ since according to Paddy Ashdown, ‘you can’t have peace without justice’.

  12. Laura says:

    what about the underwear of understanding?

  13. will says:

    Thanks for this Jon I have been tracking this story from the links you provided. One of the interesting things is that Google have at last provided a good service. All of the posts that have been removed from Dave Walkers site are still available to view in Google’s Cache. So even though they have been removed there are still available to view, if you go digging.

    MY feeling is just that of sadness that an organisation that simply doesn’t know how to run a business cannot simply admit that and have to resort to this kind of action. Thanks to the internet their name is mud so much more than if they put their hands up admitted mistakes and loved people enough to help them move on. Instead they are doing everything they can to try and “save” their name, by shutting everyone up about it. I am glad to say that this will not happen.

    There is also alot of talk about how Dave should fight back. I don’t think that is anyones business but his. As a cartoonist, he has done his job and we are talking about it.

    The one thing that really gets my goat is that we are so much more animated about a Gay issue with posts over 100 than an issue like this that gets only a small number of responses in comparison.

    Perhaps i am being unfair but it seems that when we can make our voices heard about some real injustice we go quite.

    Please hear me – i am NOT pointing my finger at the good people at ASBO. or at people specifically. I am simply making a point, or indeed asking the question “WHY?”

  14. janetp says:

    JF (10) :lol:

    Will (13): Why indeed. I’d be interested to read the original posts, as even after reading the links in 7 I’m not too sure what all the fuss is about – I mean, why anyone has decided they need to shut anyone up, not why people are complaining about the shutting up. ;)

    Can you give me some pointers as to how to retrieve the info from Google?

  15. will says:

    there was a link on the third “HERE” on Jon’s previous blog with a comment with the link to the cached files. These now have been removed also.

  16. will says:

    for anyone’s info a good run down of this situation can be found here-> http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/series/cease-and-desist-notice-on-dave-walker/

  17. janetp says:

    Thanks Will. I’ve managed to pick up quite a lot of info via links to different websites. It would have been good to see just what Dave posted that got him drawn into the whole can of worms though.

  18. will says:

    by the look of it the matt wardman site are looking to create a PDF of all the posts and allow that to be passed around by email.

  19. David Keen says:

    I’ve posted a couple of links today which give most, or all, of the Dave Walker posts. Dave was very careful over what he posted, and the comments he allowed. I personally think he was silenced because the truth was bad publicity.

    http://davidkeen.blogspot.com/

    Like Will I’m also surprised how few comments this has got. Summer hols, or apathy?

  20. jonbirch says:

    i’m surprised too.

  21. JF says:

    I guess it’s more compelling to comment on something which is contentious and where there is a disparity of views based on first hand experience. This issue is something not everyone has come across. Coming to it as it’s been presented here it seems an open and shut case and it’s apparently not possible to review the very material at the centre of it. Just an idea as to why the comments are thin on the ground. Important to have raised awareness though.

  22. jonbirch says:

    fair comment jf.
    i was hoping we might have a freedom of speech conversation… but a more direct cartoon on that theme would probably better suit.
    i was also hoping that i could get the feeling of a bit of support for dave. he’s a good guy.
    i do know that my first cartoon on the subject has been taken and used on other blogs… so the primary objective of ‘making a noise’ is at least working to some extent.
    it is amazing when you think of how much racism and fairly hideous comment is out there on some blogs that it should be dave walker’s that gets a cease and desist notice.
    hopefully a good lawyer who is not motivated by fees (should such a person exist) will be able to go through dave’s posts and tell him he’s safe to re-instate them, or take the fight on for him.
    honestly… if everyone behaved like brewer, there’d be no question time on the tv, no football commentary, no anything worth having really.

  23. Carole says:

    I think JF has hit the nail on the head. Unless you have a good working knowledge of the facts of the case you run the risk of commenting for its own sake. I had a vague awareness of the fact that there was an issue as the cartoonchurch blog is one that I visit on a reasonably regular basis. I now must shamefacedly admit I skipped over these posts to find the cartoons (how very ‘Homer Simpson’ of me!). But since the news of the ‘gagging’ has broken, I’ve been fishing around trying to piece together what the problem is. I have joined the Facebook group as I suspect others have, so it is misleading and a bit unfair to look at the comments on ASBO as an indicator to the interest being shown.

  24. JF says:

    Yes Jon… The few cartoons of Dave’s that I’ve been able to look at have endeared him to me already.

  25. jonbirch says:

    hahaha… carole… i always do the same at cartoon church! how shallow is that?!!! mind you, it is called ‘cartoon church’ and i first went there a year or so ago looking for cartoons… only to find that it is more than cartoons. maybe i should take legal action against him for doing more than mere cartooning when that is clearly what the blog is called! i feel a cartoon coming on! :-)

    actually found out a bit more about brewer from an orthodox friend at the weekend. a brief conversation that revealed a lot. i don’t think i’d want anything to do with him.

    thought you’d like his work jf. some of it really makes me smile. the ‘control station pulpit’ and the woman finding her numbers have come up when checking her order of service against the hymn numbers board. very funny. :-)

  26. Carole says:

    I love Dave Walker’s cartoons. He hits the nail on the head in a slightly surreal but very Anglican and very funny way. But whatever he does is always with great warmth…but I still love your cartoons more, Jon. :)

    Must go now. I am off to sunny Menorca tomorrow for a fortnight and I’m forbidden from going to any internet cafes – under pain of certain death. I’ve had my warning in the very strongest terms. If Phil knew anything about ‘cease and desist’ I would have had that too!

  27. sarah says:

    Exactly what happened to me. Cheated and fucked over.

  28. jonbirch says:

    happy holidays carole! :-)

    sorry to hear that sarah.

  29. sarah says:

    Hiya Jon.

    Good to see you again.

    Ranting because bad day had to see soon to be ex-boss. Have left church the last visit there will be Sunday.

    Post me back.

    Sas x

  30. sarah says:

    Will, 13, exactly.

  31. David Keen says:

    Carole, JF, fair points. I must admit I’ve got far more interested in the details of the SPCK case since Dave Walker got the libel threat than I was before.

    And yes I go there more for the cartoons than the comments. But you’ve got to start at the shallow end before you really wade in….

  32. drewman says:

    Just got back from ‘summer youth camp’ time. – exhausted.
    Cannot comprehend all this either, sadly though I can believe it.

    Dave, Jon and others – may the blog be with you!

  33. Mark Bennet says:

    Anyone wanting to see a the documents of the “Dave Walker affair” can now download a pdf from

    http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/2008/08/01/the-dave-walker-reports-parts-1-to-75/

  34. Thomas says:

    This is exactly the verses I was thinking about when I saw 519!

  35. Phil Groom says:

    Hi Jon, hi all. Thanks for all this: fantastic to come back from my holiday and find this amazing groundswell of support.

    For the record, I’ve offered Mr Brewer an out of court settlement option: a £100,000 donation to the ‘Save the SPCK Booksellers’ fund. More info here:
    Mark Brewer says, “Remove this page. Immediately.”

    Jon, any chance you could either categorise or tag your Dave Walker related cartoons, please? Then I can add one link to the SPCK/SSG Dave Walker Links section that will pick up both of them, and any in the future — please say there will be more :)

    Thanks.

  36. Phil Groom says:

    PS: I’ve written a review of The Dave Walker Reposts which Mark refers to. Here.

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