Whether one would vote for Ms. Palin or not (I won’t)this is an unwarranted attack on a decent lady. What is it exactly that stirs up your silly fears and hatred? Is it that she rose to national prominence on her own, without riding on the coattails of her husband? Was it that she shunned the easy way out with her baby? Was it the unfairly edited Couric interview? I don’t get it. You owe her an apology (not to mention God).
An unwarranted attack on a decent lady? I can’t comment on whether she is decent or not…. I’ve never met her.
But she’s the governor of a state with less people than Leeds in the UK. I’m not sure she’s got the experience to deal with the world stage and the power.
I’m also not keen on her warmongering.
As a woman and a feminist, I admire her career progression and commitment to her career. This does not make me want her to be the VP. That is not qualification enough.
I don’t see any silly fears or hatred demonstrated here, just a desire for her not to get to the white house, a desire which you seem to share since you don’t intend to vote for her (i assume you state that so your intention is known, and also because you have the right to vote for her party).
Also, we’ve not seen who it is that’s holding the pen. I imagine it’s not Jon per se, but rather a patsy which will lead us in to discussion about the role of prayer and faith in politics, as well as the question of how ordained by God our political leaders actually are.
Incidentally, i would be happy to make that prayer my own, but not because i hate her, or because i have a silly fear of her, on the contrary, my fear is entirely rational. If she’s in, the republicans are in, in short, i think they’ve had a fair crack of the whip for now.
I do also struggle with people who believe God created the world in 6 days and then thank Her by hunting the living snot out of it for sport.
it is not that she’s a woman. i’m sure she is a decent person. i have no hatred towards her. in fact, in a way, i quite like her.
fear though… yes, i am fearful. that she is ‘that’ close to the white house is a frankly terrifying prospect for the world. iraq tells me that my fears are certainly not silly.
i won’t be apologising. it is a genuine hope and prayer that she doesn’t win with mccane. just like i hoped and prayed bush junior wouldn’t… but that’s democracy for you… if enough people vote for the mccane/palin ticket, my prayer will be less than a gnat on the wind.
america’s place in the world is as important to the rest of the world as it is to america. we will all have our views, sometimes strong views and this cartoon represents my views. it is my blog.
to summarise… i feel it would be a terrible thing for the rest of the world should mccane get in, die and palin take on the post… what qualifies her?
as, i think matt damon said… ti’s a little like that part of the election is being run by disney.
anyway, enough of my neurotic being blown about in the wind
I definitely saw Sarah Palin say ‘I’ll get right back to ya’ to Katie Couric – I don’t think that was edited – and she really didn’t seem to have a clue about foreign policy.
or there are loads on youtube if you can be bothered (the one on the nbc website is fab)
I don’t hate her, or fear her, I’m not a misogynist – can women be? don’t know, but she doesn’t seem to know what she’s talking about which seems to me quite scary for the VP of the US of A…….
It’s about time that somebody suggested doing something.
This election will affect everyone in the world, but most of the world’s population are not entitled to vote. So if you are one of the people who isn’t entitled to vote, go to this web site and ask the US electorate to use their vote wisely. http://www.avaaz.org/en/usa_remember_the_world/?cl=125819553&v=2137
(In case you’re concerned that you’ve never heard of Avaaz, I should add that they’re endorsed by both Oxfam and Amnesty International).
And if you’re one of the US electorate, use your vote wisely.
I have another suggestion — write to Ms Palin and ask her, if the Republicans get elected, to treat God’s creation with every bit of respect it deserves. It might work…
Whether Mr. Jon is correct or not, this is an unwarranted attack on a decent gentleman. What is it exactly that stirs up your judgement and hatred? Is it because he’s putting his thoughts into drawings, without much reserve? Was it that after discerning what is right and wrong, he tried to share his view on his own blog? Was it because you took it too personally? I don’t get it. You owe him an apology (not to mention God).
I definitely support the sentiments in the original post. Palin does not come across as somebody who is capable in experience, intellect or knowledge for the role of Vice-President of one of the most powerful countries on Earth.
Unfortunately I’m a British citizen and cannot vote in this election. Please, for the sake of the world, go with the Democrats.
Here’s a few pointers from someone on this side of the states who just cast her absentee ballot because I am flying on our election day and wanted to be sure my vote got recorded in case my flight got delayed and I got home after the polls closed …
I have VERY low expectations regarding what any President can do during this situation given both political parties are held hijacked by high powered lobbyists who are beholden to special interest groups and multinational corporations – in all debates held to date, I haven’t heard anything sane about how to fix our economy which is already having global ramifications. That’s why I, along with others, stand as lone wolves advocating for third parties – we have to stop this gridlock. Our current two parties started out as third parties so there is a historical precedent for what we are advocating.
Faith has muddied up the waters in this election across the board – we actually have a “Clergy for Obama” group formed and get this – a PAC (political action committee that raises soft money for political campaigns) called Matthew 25 — if the religious right pulled either of these moves, the progressives would be all over them but I guess it’s OK for them to cross the church/state separation line.
Re: a President’s personal faith – in the US, you cannot get elected unless you profess a belief in God and accept Jesus. That’s just how it is – so even if you’re an agnostic, you put on the suit and go to church and pretend to believe. In this election, both Obama and McCain have advisors who coach them in how to speak before specific crowds albeit captains of industry or union leaders. Check out the Saddleback Forum and you’ll see both candidates speaking “evangelical-eze” in order to appeal to those who adore Rick Warren (who is in line to be the next Billy Graham advisor to whoever gets elected).
So frankly we have no freakin’ clue what they “really” believe – but in deciding who makes a better candidate, I do NOT want anyone as my Commander-in-Chief with the military at his disposal, who believes that he has been ordained by God and therefore has a God-given mandate to help usher in the Apocalypse. We’ve had 8 years of this type of government and the results speak for themselves. My concern with Sara Palin is expressed in this excellent editorial:
But please, please, please do not think that President Obama is our Savior – that’s a major mistake that some progressives are making and it’s going to hit the faith fan big time.
Hello very intelligent people that are so formal and intellectual I was slightly afraid to post.
But I’m gonna post anyhoo!
From what Ive gathered from episodes of ‘Mock the Week’ and ‘The Week’ (magazine) I agree with Jons cartoon. Not only cos it made me chuckle, but because Palin (correct me if I’m wrong)is apparently a Christian who supports the death penalty. I’m a lil bit comfuzzled. And I disagree with her. And I hope she doesn’t give another bad name to women in power (if she ever gets in power – hopefully not) because one day I aspire to be PM. I think… maybe… *runs away*
I would much rather have a vp that may not know much than a president who is ignorant. How many times has Obama proven he knows squat when it comes to foreign policy and made ignorant statement to prove it. Just because he has had a longer learning curve then Palin does not mean squat. In addition to this I am a hunter and I hunt for food not just for sport. Dont forget that God killed the first animal to cover Adam and Eve which was the first sacrifice. Also lets not forget all the sacrifices that would have had to take place in the Old Testament. I am voting for the President not the VP though Palin lines up with what I believe.
OK– I am apparently in the minority, but… if you ask what qualifies Palin for VP, you must also ask what qualifies Obama for president.
Seriously, can you list five things he has accomplished? Not five ideas he has had, or five letters he has written, or five speeches he has made– what are five things he has actually accomplished?
Jish and Chris – therein lies the dilemma. If McCain was younger, there wouldn’t be the real concern that Sarah Palin could actually be our President. He’s 72 and has a number of health issues so we’re not being paranoid here.
Quite honestly, I agree with the cartoon. That said, I’m not crazy about the Dem ticket, either. More likely than not, I will also vote third-party. And please don’t give me that crap about how a vote for a third party is a vote for (insert major candidate here).
I think one of the points about this cartoon today is how we as Christians always think we are going to sway/beg God to see our point of view. I could care less for either candidate (no joke) but I prefer to pray that God would continue to be with us no matter who is in charge. Do people really think God was shocked when either Bill Clinton or George Bush (both of them) were elected? I prefer to believe God has it all under control and I can do my part by praying, voting, then praying for whoever is elected.
Things that are dangerous in this world are not just those things that are ‘anti-Christ’ but those that are ‘almost-Christ’ and masquerade as being Godly like democracy (and monarchy!)
bill clinton makes me think of king david… obviously not quite as badly behaved as king david… but at least the world felt safer under him… dammit it WAS safer!
if sarah palin were to bring her “not blink” way of thinking onto the world stage… well, put it this way, i’d not trust someone like that to hold anything with a trigger attached. … or is that ?
what??? this thread hasn’t been hijacked by Ron Paul comments yet?
Actually, I’ve been reading comments on the web from staunch republicans claiming they can’t win after McCain’s latest debate performance. They are actually glad about this because the staunch republicans think McCain is a socialist, but besides that they think that Obama’s presidency will be like Jimmy Carter’s and deliver the White House to Mitt Romney (or Palin) in 4 years’ time. The choice for Americans now is really a bit like choosing between John Major and Tony Blair.
Anyway, I watched a bit of Simon Schama’s history of the USA tonight and was immensely impressed by the ‘Okies’. A group of ordinary people who overfarmed in Oklahoma and lost their farms in the dustbowl catastrophe, but they went on west to California and worked hard to get themselves back on track. They were the type of Americans who made the country great.
Comment by John Ferguson — October 10, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
fascinating john… is it being repeated? his series on britain was excellent.
My tendency is to vote Libertarian, so Palin is not much of an issue to me.
Caroline, there in #26 you make a good point.
I don’t understand this “yeah, but Alsaka only has this itty-bitty population so she’s not qualified” thing.
Doesn’t matter the scale, the operating principles are the same.
Seems to me like saying that since one drives a BMW Mini Cooper he is not qualified to drive a Cadillac.
If one wants to pray about candidates, the thing to do is pray that the best one gets in and that he or she is open to hearing and following God’s will and ways.
Regardless of what twistings of those messages men and media throw at them.
And remember this, if a person who pleases God gets the office, it is quite likely God will give to them what is needed to handle the office.
Remember Solomon?
And remember how Solomon screwed up?
The problem with elections is that we only know what it is that media tells about the people running: we don’t know anything first-hand.
Which to me means that we don’t actually “know” anything at all.
later,
Forrest – stressing out about enough things home and health that the election is being mostly ignored at this juncture.
Jon, Schama’s series is on the BBC, so you should be able to watch on the iPlayer. BBC 4 will probably repeat it at some point. And there will probably be books and DVDs as well.
Comment by John Ferguson — October 10, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
go for it anna! i’m confuzzled (nice word) too as to how the death penalty lines up with biblical christianity… in my bible it doesn’t line up at all.
hi caroline… i can’t see how god can possibly have it all under control… seems to me he actually is withholding any control at all. unless invading iraq was indeed the will of god and the current state of the world is his policy… which i don’t believe it is for one second. indeed i think it is greed, stupidity and selfishness that have led to where we are… nothing to do with god at all.
like becky says… the worry that john mccain might die is a valid one were he in power… he does totter and breathe heavily. these are not criticisms of him, they are facts about him.
i do think that a black president is a good thing. i think it sends a clear message to the rest of the world that america has moved on… true or not, it does leave a good taste in the mouth on this side of the pond. i don’t prefer him to mccain from what i’ve seen of him, but he cuts quite a figure in our media age. he certainly looks like a president.
btw… if i lived in the states i’d probably vote for an independent… were there one who represented my views. in my own country i’m completely confused about who represents what!
the thing is forrest… they all know it’s a media game. the savviest wins. sarah palin doesn’t come over as savvy to me. in fact she seems to talk nonsense sometimes… a bit like bush does. she always seems caught off guard, like every question is a difficult one. it doesn’t seem like she is fully aware of the game she is involved with. she seems self assured though, i’ll give her that.
btw forrest… hope there is an end to the stress soon. hang in there.
Please God help me realize that war does not look like Call of Duty or John Wayne in Longest Day. Please God help me realize Wall Street doesn’t just affect my wallet it affects the world. Please God help me understand that spending $2 for every $1 I make is greed not stewardship. Please God help me understand that my SUV doesn’t really need a V8 to go a block to the market. Please God let me understand that love thy neighbor is not saying peace be with you on Sunday… oh yea and please don’t let McCain anywhere near D.C.
I agree with you jon (33) if I lived there I’d vote independent. It would be good to have a black president (or a woman) but not necessarily this one. Because of the dem canditates (black man/white woman) that became the issue rather than what they were standing for. Then of course palin was wheeled out; they obviously didn’t have a black woman to hand, which would have been a real coup.
I know I’m cynical but P-lease!
The Green Party, Socialist Workers Party, and the Party of Socialism and LIberation all have a woman running for President or Vice President – heck, the Green Party has African American female candidates in both slots and some of the other parties are putting forth a Hispanic candidate. We’ve never had this much diversity on a Presidential ticket ever. Somehow this bit never makes the news. LIke Rudolph, third party candidates aren’t invited to join in the reindeer games as a rule of thumb – Ross Perot got enough support that they let him debate (a major low point in American politics).
BTW-the polls are pure rubbish – they only count landline phones and a good percentage of those of us under 50 only have a cell phone.
Just seen on the news that palin has been accused of abuse of power in alaska. Allegedly she and her husband put some pressure on to have palin’s ex-brother-in-law removed from his job (state trooper or something). Hmmmmmmmmmm
good to read your debate folks. I feel despondent, and wonder if democracy has been bought out, do either party offer any scope of really bringing peace and hope to the world stage they play on? are they not both just puppets to different groups of vested interests? What was Obama doing when he reassured the Zionists he wouldn’t interfere with their activities? I don’t want to take sides against either as am not American, but I do feel worried about the process that bought Palin to the position of potential VP. And how can a president, elected via this process, fully take on the call to serve, if serving goes against the investment of the groups who have put them there? It feels to me like democracy by numbers
but then despite enjoying his impressive oratory.. I have nagging doubt that much of Obama’s comments seem to be as vacuuls as Dave ‘boy’ Camerons (of course we only get soundbites here in the UK, so maybe I haven’t seen more thoughtful stuff – UK TV tends to avoid thoughtful if it can)
but whatever, in terms of what will happen in the world I suspect that we should pay more attention to who’s running Exxon, General Dynamics, BAe and the invisible committees of the MOD and Pentagon than who’s running the Whitehouse!
that is where I suspect power really lies
Comment by Caroline Too — October 11, 2008 @ 10:20 am
vaccuuls
probably should be a word, but I meant to type
vacuous, sorry
Comment by Caroline Too — October 11, 2008 @ 10:21 am
oh Good!
a nice rant about US politics.
Anyway…”they”
over “there”
get it wrong,
all the time.
Go to churh to get into the White House?
We don’t do that here for No 10, dearie me no.
(this means i don’t have to think about what to do here-
GOOD
coz i haven’t a clue……)
I don’t really like it when someone tells me who to vote for. And I find it amusing when the left is so “fearful”, but they accuse the right of various “phobias”.
I lean more Libertarian, but in this election, will definitely vote for McCain/Palin.
it’s not that ‘amusing’ when many innocent people lose their lives in other parts of the globe. i think that is what many are fearful of… including many on the right.
Re: #31 and the car driving analogy. The isolation of Alaska means that a governor there really doesn’t have to worry about international politics, and Palin has failed to indicate otherwise. (Sure, you can “see Russia” but I can see a bank from my house and it doesn’t make me an expert on the economy. Plus the total time Palin has spent in foreign “negotiation”–with fish and trade groups–apparently has been about 12 hours). I think that her potential presidency (should circumstances warrant it) would like giving someone who knows how to change a light bulb the responsibility of rewiring an entire house. What scares me about Palin is the same thing that has horrified me about W. from day one: they don’t know what they don’t know, (which is true of all of us) and have little curiosity to find out. In point of fact: Palin’s inability to name any magazines or newspapers that she reads. She couldn’t name the Anchorage Daily News?
Hey Mitch, not to be mean to your or anything – could someone please list all the US state and/or commonwealth governors who do have to worry about international politics?
(when reading my posts do keep in mind that I ain’t voting either Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin)
I’m not particularly in favour of the republican party, but nothing I’ve come across in the news makes me think this outburst is justified.
I love ASBO and will always check regularly, but is this about Jesus or politics, or did I miss the point somewhere?
I agree with Jon’s earlier post that implied democracy isn’t necessarially biblical (Israel’s worst times where when the people united and made decisions based on the peoples collective wisdom) however I think this particular post has more to do with your (Jon’s) personal views than any kind of theological stance, as with most ASBOs.
Comment by youthworkerpete — October 11, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
Well that certainly got the conversation started. I am intrigued by the way many have taken a prayer in the direction human to God instead as a decree from God to human. Curious.
I personally disagree with the prayer “lets dash the heads of their babies on rocks” but I don’t necessarily think that is the view of God.
Personally I can’t see how it is possible to be pro creationism and insist that God created everything, whilst be anti legislation that protects the environment. I think it is too incongruous a political stance…
asbo loves you too youthworkerpete! for all your insight and input over the months (almost years!) your question re. ‘is this about jesus or politics?’ is an interesting one for me. i never could seperate my faith from my politics, any more than i believe jesus did. i don’t mean party politics, although that comes into it of course, but i mean my faith informs the way i view the world. hence… for me, the idea of sarah palin holding a prominent position in the world is something that makes me think of all the possible repercussions… as i did with george bush (both times round)… and it seems to me that she is a scary proposition when it comes to peace in the middle east or how to deal with terrorism. her rhetoric on that subject certainly is more than a little disturbing. i think maybe, two borrow a portion of her own phrase, she needs to learn how to blink. i don’t want a world leader who wouldn’t blink… i want a thoughtful one.
shelly… so sorry your comment didn’t come through… i think it’s because there was more than one link, so it meant i had to moderate it. it’s there now though. thanks for your contribution.
Speaking as a photographer I have to ask wtf is going on with many of the presidential nominees!! How did the prohibition party let that shot go out? More importantly how did this shot make it out there? http://www.politics1.com/news/lariva.jpg
thanks Jon, for the post. i’m scared too, and appreciate the support from the other side of the pond.
i’m voting for Obama in this one not because I agree with more of what he says that I do with McCain (or the other folks I’ve heard). I’m not voting for him because he’s perfect, or because I agree with everything, or because I think he can save America.
So yeah…
But I have to say I am deeply saddened by the vitriol coming out of Christians on both sides of this election. C’mon people! When Jesus said “Love thy neighbor,” do you think he meant to say “Love them as long as they aren’t Republican” or “Love them as long as they aren’t a bleeding heart liberal”? Are gun rights more important than the fellowship of the Spirit? Is the economy more important than the bond we share through Christ? Turn down the rhetoric, for CHRIST’S sake!
Thought the comment was a good discussion, starter, but c’mon people… some of you are crossing dangerous lines.
I rarely comment on here, and feel bad I’m doing so in a negative manner, but I love Sarah Palin. She’s an energetic, refreshing, and viable candidate. As a woman, I am so glad to have her running for VP. Finally!!!! A woman could be in the second highest office in the USA. Plus, I live in Pennsylvania, which is one of the swing states that could decide the outcome of this election.
P.S. I still love you, Jon! Politics totally shouldn’t divide folks.
thanks amy. jx i guess as long as politics is adversarial it will continue to divide people. also, i think issues like the invasion of iraq, the war on terror etc. will divide people across the globe. in a way these should divide people. eg. there are those who believe that the invasion of iraq was wrong, unethical, misguided and illegal… i’m one of those. now i don’t want a split between me and others who hold the other view, but when it comes to the deaths of thousands of innocent people and the world becoming far less stable, i will not stand on the same side as those who believe it to be okay. that’s another example of how politics divides…
btw… my cartoon (if you can call it that) is not saying ‘vote obama’, it is simply saying that i think palin is dangerous… i do wonder whether even mccain is beginning to think so.
also… politics in this country is no better it has to be said. democracy has been made a mockery of in both our countries. we went into iraq too… we are equally culpable and have blood on our hands too. i find it all very sad indeed.
when it comes to terror… getting to know your foe and getting dialogue going is the only way. it is very, very hard… but it is the only way… that’s if you truly want to rid the world of terror.
nice kite forrest! still think you should get the experience and exams before flying the airbus 500 though! although, i guess, if it’s on a string… and if it’s just a little 6ft canvas airbus 500 that’d be fine.
I think it’s great that there’s a woman running for such high office; men and women should have equal opportunities to access these positions of political power. Having said that, I’m not convinced that Palin, despite being a woman, is a good candidate *for* women- look at her extremely hardline stance on abortion, I believe I’m right in saying she doesn’t agree with it even in cases of rape and incest. She scares me too.
Comment by theseoldshades — October 12, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
The whole thing about politics that puts me off is the way in which politicians often put the other side down. I mean, where is the integrity in that? How can you possibly vote for a presidential candidate or vp that lacks integrity? This should be the No.1 (or certainly pretty darned close to the top of the list) of qualities to be looked for in a leader.
In amongst all the commentary and youtube clips about the US presidential elections, one tiny bit stands out, and that was when McCain got booed by his own crowd when he told them to stop calling Obama a terrorist.
Bit late in on the discussion… but I find Greg Boyd’s approach to how Christianity and Politics go together (or not) very insightful… for his latest comments which are a nice introduction to what he has to say, click here http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/on-the-campaign-trail/
Speaking of Jules Verne; I have a project in the design stage to build a balsa wood and cardstock, varnished for waterproofing, 1/72 scale (6ft/1in) model of Nautilus. Will be about 40inches long. Will also be rubberband powered and submergeable.
Only real question is – where do ya PUT that beast in here when it’s done?!?
As I noted earlier, we have other females running for President as well as men and women of color. Given how the two party system has hijacked our country, they don’t get to have any platform whatsoever in terms of the debates, etc.
A lot of people decided to back Obama on the grounds that just because Hillary was a woman didn’t mean they supported her policies. Having said that, the rhetoric used throughout this campaign by all parties does make me wonder.
We’ve had 8 years under a President who feels he’s ordained by God and as such has a free pass to wreck havoc in the name of Jesus. I don’t want anyone near the white house who has that viewpoint. And if you read up on Ms. Palin’s religious beliefs, she’s cut of the same cloth.
Favorite Nautili are about halfway down by Ian Williams; about 3/5 down page Robert Kelley; John McEwan’s – I have the card kit but haven’t yet built it – good looking kit; about 2/3 down William Burningham’s; Jiri Chytil’s; and finally, Didier Jaffrédo at page bottom.
Out of those, Ian Williams’ is one most drawn toand what model will be sort-of based on. Model will have working lights courtesy white LED pirated from Christmas lights.
I have a project in the design stage to build a balsa wood and cardstock, varnished for waterproofing, 1/72 scale (6ft/1in) model of Sarah Palin. Will be about 1 inch long. Will also be rubber-band powered (though maybe not submergeable).
Actually, a whole line of presidential and vice presidential candidates in balsa wood and rubber-bands would be kind of neat…
Comment by Steve Lancaster — October 13, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Hey Steve, If I remember right, maximum range/altitude comes when launched at around a 45 degree angle.
I don’t think Jon does this for the numbers, Steve.
For the record, Sarah Palin worries the heck out of most folks on the other side of the pond, me included. And those outside of the Republican faithful inside the USA, from what I can gather.
This because she is rabble rousing and either can’t or won’t see the consequences of her words.
Comment by Steve Lancaster — October 13, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Steve (82). I’d be surprised if any bloggers with ASBO Jesus in their blogroll would be offended by this.
It’s hardly news that Jon (and a number of us who link to him) might feel this way, surely?
First it was ‘Bush Derangement Syndrome’ and now it’s Palin Derangement Syndrome. She’s a conservative and she shores up McCain’s political base. Get over it. People seem to have more trouble with a genuine conservative than with an untried socialist with ties to terrorists. PDS strikes again.
I live in the States and as a political science/international affairs buff I am interested in how other nations view our political processes. And sometimes I just have to scratch my head at how folks come unhinged.
hmmm… iraq steve? if by ‘unhinged’ you mean ‘concerned’… outside the states, most of us are. so, your obama concerns aren’t at all ‘deranged’ then? i have to say, you seem less ‘interested’ and more ’scornful’ towards how the rest of the world views your processes. btw. it is not the processes that trouble me so much as the outcomes. god forbid we ever have a repeat of the bush administration… i do believe america won’t allow more of the same… i hope not. enough people have died already.
I suspect that untried is a word that can be leveled at any of the presidential candidates. Unless any of them can claim to belong on the list that ends with GW Bush…
He once sat on the board of a charity alongside a member who was once part of a “terrorist” organisation. He’s publicly denounced said person’s former activities.
I don’t really think this can be counted as ties with terrorists.
McCain, however…
He funded the Contras, a guerrilla group who have tortured and murdered hundreds of people.
He also endorses Oliver North, under whose direction the US sold Iran nearly $58 million worth of weapons (including missiles) despite the US government classifying Iran as a sponsor of international terrorism.
What about his support of G. Gordon Liddy? GGL is famous for helping to mastermind the Watergate break ins and has also publicly advocated killing officers from the Bureau of AT&F. Less well known is the fact that he also called for kidnap of anti-war activists in the 70s and may have been part of a plot to murder an “unfriendly” reporter.
Has McCain ever publicly denounced any of these? No. He continues to support both North and Liddy and has accepted a fair amount of donations from Liddy to his various campaigns.
It’s preposterous to think that Obama would implement a series of bombings just like Ayers did, but it’s not so far fetched to think that McCain may carry on in the same vein without ever being questioned about it.
All the stuff I have mentioned is out there, Google is your friend.
hi mikeb… i guess that’s what happens when people hang around the corridors of power too long. as for this obama terrorist nonsense… i guess you just have to trust that most people aren’t so daft as to be sucked in by this stuff… i know some are.
thanks for the comment.
No one would suggest that Obama is a terrorist, but he hangs with people who are unrepentant terrorists. Bill Ayers said recently that he wishes he had done more when they placed bombs in the Pentagon and in judges’ homes. Obama had his political coming-out party in Ayers’ home. Some suggest that Ayers ghost-wrote one or both of Obama’s ‘autobiographies’.
The issue, though, is your reaction to Gov. Palin, which to me seems unreasonable. Is it the fact that she’s a professing Christian? Or a young-earth creationist? Or that she opposes socialist government programs?
One of my issues with her is that she believes that all women who are raped should be forced to carry the baby through to term, even if it’s a case of incest.
I have tried and tried and tried but I cannot get my head round how someone can actually hold this viewpoint.
Oh, and Jon, far too many have been sucked in by it, that’s the problem. Character assassination is still a formidable political weapon.
Steve: You said “No one would suggest that Obama is a terrorist, but he hangs with people who are unrepentant terrorists.”. Did you read my post? McCain does exactly the same thing that you accuse Obama of doing, but I’ll wager you can just conveniently ignore that fact…
In the end, Jon was only expressing his opinion anyway and he’s fully entitled to hold it. There have been some venemous attacks on him here but you’ll not get one from me.
Keep at it Jon, I check in a couple of times a day since this site was shown to me a few weeks ago (and I’ve already read all the comics ) but this comic is the first time I’ve been brave enough to comment.
there are several things steve. one is, she too would have gone into iraq… this was always wrong and illegal in my view and i think the white house and the rest of the world would really benefit from a change of heart and attitude from the new incumbents. she has no experience of dealing with other countries… i guess this feels less important for many american voters, but it is vitally important when viewed from outside america.
perfectly fine that she’s a professing christian… but one or two of the conclusions she draws from her particular brand of faith i think are far too black and white.
as i’ve said before, i worry about her ‘no blink’ attitude. to beat terrorism (it isn’t a war) she needs to have a far more thoughtful approach… she’ll need to be able to enter into dialogue with people she doesn’t like.
i find her approach to the creation really weird… if she is a young earth creationist, why is she so intent on pillaging it? i don’t understand how you can be a creationist and hold no concept of stewardship. also, resources are for sharing, it is a basic biblical requirement…
i could go on… in fact i have gone on… i hope this clarifies my thoughts for you a little.
mikeb… welcome! glad you felt brave!
to be honest, the personal attacks are fine, so long as they aren’t offensive. i knew when i put this cartoon up it’d get a few reactions. part of the job really.
the questions steve asked are good and valid… and i always welcome conversation, even when we hold different views. i guess that’s the way we learn. nice to have you here!
Surely an ‘unrepentant terrorist’ is just a terrorist. A ‘repentant terrorist’ would cease to be a terrorist and would cease to be referred to as such…
You liberal Christians can be so arrogant and presumptuous. Jon, how hard would it have been for you to discover Palin’s running mate’s name is spelled “McCain?”
Look, you don’t have to like her. I don’t think she’s particularly qualified, and she’s far from perfect. If you’re in the U.S. and you can vote, please vote for whomever you think will do the most good. If you’re not in the U.S., your opinion doesn’t matter, just as my preferences regarding foreign elections is irrelevant.
Praying for a candidate to not win an election is arrogant, too. I’m voting McCain/Palin, but I pray only that the right candidate will win. Whose to say I know what’s best?
Generally, I’ve loved the ASBO Jesus cartoons. This was petty, one-sided, proud, and disappointing. I expected better.
Surely if an opinion outside the US is irrelevant (which to be frank is an attitude that has done and continues to do the US no favours around the world), why are people getting so upset about it?
Sorry, with five minutes of contemplation, I realise that making judgements about who should rule another country is wrong. Please exhume Sadam Hussain and reanimate him. The decision was an irrelevant one….
#104 Nathan, I don’t think it’s arrogant to pray for a candidate not to win an election.
God has blessed us with brains and the ability to research and analyze and question. I think he has given us a responsibility to inform ourselves of what is happening in the world, what the candidates are proposing and the implications of these proposals.
If a politician supports or encourages dangerous and harmful attitudes and courses of action, then I believe it is not wrong to pray they do not win an election, it is using the brain and discernment God has given us. For example, do you think was wrong to pray that Mugabe lost the election in Zimbabwe?
Furthermore, I disagree that the cartoon was petty. Obviously cartoons depict concepts in a catching and simple manner. I think if you read Jon’s comments he has taken pains to be well informed and takes the issues involved very seriously.
Thanks for provoking such an interesting discussion Jon.
I could have posted this under cartoon 580, but it didn’t seem to quite fit with the mood, so I’m posting it here.
I’ve encountered the following anagram “Sarah Palin Vice President” “is perhaps devil incarnate”. So it’s good for her sake as well as everyone else’s that it hasn’t come to fruition.
wow.
Comment by Lewis — October 10, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
She is not a tired cynical male politician.
Maybe that would be a good thing.
Comment by johnski — October 10, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
Whether one would vote for Ms. Palin or not (I won’t)this is an unwarranted attack on a decent lady. What is it exactly that stirs up your silly fears and hatred? Is it that she rose to national prominence on her own, without riding on the coattails of her husband? Was it that she shunned the easy way out with her baby? Was it the unfairly edited Couric interview? I don’t get it. You owe her an apology (not to mention God).
Comment by richard — October 10, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
An unwarranted attack on a decent lady? I can’t comment on whether she is decent or not…. I’ve never met her.
But she’s the governor of a state with less people than Leeds in the UK. I’m not sure she’s got the experience to deal with the world stage and the power.
I’m also not keen on her warmongering.
As a woman and a feminist, I admire her career progression and commitment to her career. This does not make me want her to be the VP. That is not qualification enough.
Comment by Alex — October 10, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
I don’t see any silly fears or hatred demonstrated here, just a desire for her not to get to the white house, a desire which you seem to share since you don’t intend to vote for her (i assume you state that so your intention is known, and also because you have the right to vote for her party).
Also, we’ve not seen who it is that’s holding the pen. I imagine it’s not Jon per se, but rather a patsy which will lead us in to discussion about the role of prayer and faith in politics, as well as the question of how ordained by God our political leaders actually are.
Comment by andy amoss — October 10, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Incidentally, i would be happy to make that prayer my own, but not because i hate her, or because i have a silly fear of her, on the contrary, my fear is entirely rational. If she’s in, the republicans are in, in short, i think they’ve had a fair crack of the whip for now.
I do also struggle with people who believe God created the world in 6 days and then thank Her by hunting the living snot out of it for sport.
Comment by andy amoss — October 10, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
it is not that she’s a woman. i’m sure she is a decent person. i have no hatred towards her. in fact, in a way, i quite like her.
fear though… yes, i am fearful. that she is ‘that’ close to the white house is a frankly terrifying prospect for the world. iraq tells me that my fears are certainly not silly.
i won’t be apologising. it is a genuine hope and prayer that she doesn’t win with mccane. just like i hoped and prayed bush junior wouldn’t… but that’s democracy for you… if enough people vote for the mccane/palin ticket, my prayer will be less than a gnat on the wind.
america’s place in the world is as important to the rest of the world as it is to america. we will all have our views, sometimes strong views and this cartoon represents my views. it is my blog.
to summarise… i feel it would be a terrible thing for the rest of the world should mccane get in, die and palin take on the post… what qualifies her?
as, i think matt damon said… ti’s a little like that part of the election is being run by disney.
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
Oh, and drilling; they drill the living snot out of it too!
Awfully sorry for the triple post folks, quite unprecidented.
Comment by andy amoss — October 10, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
andy, you have excelled yourself… three posts!? what is the world coming to!?
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
I did laugh when I saw this
then read richard’s post and felt duly judged
then read jon’s post and felt okay again
anyway, enough of my neurotic being blown about in the wind
I definitely saw Sarah Palin say ‘I’ll get right back to ya’ to Katie Couric – I don’t think that was edited – and she really didn’t seem to have a clue about foreign policy.
if you want a laugh there’s a funny Tina Fey spoof here: http://radical-evangelical.blogspot.com/2008/10/and-i-can-see-russia-from-my-house.html
or there are loads on youtube if you can be bothered (the one on the nbc website is fab)
I don’t hate her, or fear her, I’m not a misogynist – can women be? don’t know, but she doesn’t seem to know what she’s talking about which seems to me quite scary for the VP of the US of A…….
Comment by jody — October 10, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
It’s about time that somebody suggested doing something.
This election will affect everyone in the world, but most of the world’s population are not entitled to vote. So if you are one of the people who isn’t entitled to vote, go to this web site and ask the US electorate to use their vote wisely.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/usa_remember_the_world/?cl=125819553&v=2137
(In case you’re concerned that you’ve never heard of Avaaz, I should add that they’re endorsed by both Oxfam and Amnesty International).
And if you’re one of the US electorate, use your vote wisely.
I have another suggestion — write to Ms Palin and ask her, if the Republicans get elected, to treat God’s creation with every bit of respect it deserves. It might work…
Comment by rebecca — October 10, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Whether Mr. Jon is correct or not, this is an unwarranted attack on a decent gentleman. What is it exactly that stirs up your judgement and hatred? Is it because he’s putting his thoughts into drawings, without much reserve? Was it that after discerning what is right and wrong, he tried to share his view on his own blog? Was it because you took it too personally? I don’t get it. You owe him an apology (not to mention God).
Comment by zefi — October 10, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
thank you very much zefi… that is very kind.
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
I definitely support the sentiments in the original post. Palin does not come across as somebody who is capable in experience, intellect or knowledge for the role of Vice-President of one of the most powerful countries on Earth.
Unfortunately I’m a British citizen and cannot vote in this election. Please, for the sake of the world, go with the Democrats.
Comment by MattW — October 10, 2008 @ 5:45 pm
jody… hahahahahahahahaha! that spoof is hilarious!
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 5:45 pm
this is hilarious too… http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Lol. I’ve been praying that too ever since her attack on Obama…pretty much her whole speech seemed to be just slagging him off.
And I also prayed Mr Bush Jr wouldn’t be allowed in the white house…and we can see the mess the world is in now…
But then I guess revelation has to happen sooner or later…
I loved this post at D Train…(and not because he linked to me, but because of the reasons he voted the way)
http://www.d-train.net/article/357/the-inevitable-election-post
Comment by brunettekoala — October 10, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
for the record… it’s mccain… that is unless you’re talking about the country singer in the UK:
http://www.johnmccane.co.uk/
and maybe this is goofy of me, but I had no idea there were country music singers in the UK, what is up with that?
Comment by jaybrams — October 10, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
Here’s a few pointers from someone on this side of the states who just cast her absentee ballot because I am flying on our election day and wanted to be sure my vote got recorded in case my flight got delayed and I got home after the polls closed …
I have VERY low expectations regarding what any President can do during this situation given both political parties are held hijacked by high powered lobbyists who are beholden to special interest groups and multinational corporations – in all debates held to date, I haven’t heard anything sane about how to fix our economy which is already having global ramifications. That’s why I, along with others, stand as lone wolves advocating for third parties – we have to stop this gridlock. Our current two parties started out as third parties so there is a historical precedent for what we are advocating.
Faith has muddied up the waters in this election across the board – we actually have a “Clergy for Obama” group formed and get this – a PAC (political action committee that raises soft money for political campaigns) called Matthew 25 — if the religious right pulled either of these moves, the progressives would be all over them but I guess it’s OK for them to cross the church/state separation line.
Re: a President’s personal faith – in the US, you cannot get elected unless you profess a belief in God and accept Jesus. That’s just how it is – so even if you’re an agnostic, you put on the suit and go to church and pretend to believe. In this election, both Obama and McCain have advisors who coach them in how to speak before specific crowds albeit captains of industry or union leaders. Check out the Saddleback Forum and you’ll see both candidates speaking “evangelical-eze” in order to appeal to those who adore Rick Warren (who is in line to be the next Billy Graham advisor to whoever gets elected).
So frankly we have no freakin’ clue what they “really” believe – but in deciding who makes a better candidate, I do NOT want anyone as my Commander-in-Chief with the military at his disposal, who believes that he has been ordained by God and therefore has a God-given mandate to help usher in the Apocalypse. We’ve had 8 years of this type of government and the results speak for themselves. My concern with Sara Palin is expressed in this excellent editorial:
http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2008/09/the-apocalypse-raises-its-head.html
But please, please, please do not think that President Obama is our Savior – that’s a major mistake that some progressives are making and it’s going to hit the faith fan big time.
Comment by becky — October 10, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
yes, it made me laugh out loud – i very much like things that make me do that
Comment by jody — October 10, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
Hello very intelligent people that are so formal and intellectual I was slightly afraid to post.
But I’m gonna post anyhoo!
From what Ive gathered from episodes of ‘Mock the Week’ and ‘The Week’ (magazine) I agree with Jons cartoon. Not only cos it made me chuckle, but because Palin (correct me if I’m wrong)is apparently a Christian who supports the death penalty. I’m a lil bit comfuzzled. And I disagree with her. And I hope she doesn’t give another bad name to women in power (if she ever gets in power – hopefully not) because one day I aspire to be PM. I think… maybe… *runs away*
Comment by Anna — October 10, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
I hear the words Palin and Whitehouse and I think ‘bloody hell that Monty Python bloke gets everywhere!! ‘
Comment by marcus — October 10, 2008 @ 7:25 pm
I would much rather have a vp that may not know much than a president who is ignorant. How many times has Obama proven he knows squat when it comes to foreign policy and made ignorant statement to prove it. Just because he has had a longer learning curve then Palin does not mean squat. In addition to this I am a hunter and I hunt for food not just for sport. Dont forget that God killed the first animal to cover Adam and Eve which was the first sacrifice. Also lets not forget all the sacrifices that would have had to take place in the Old Testament. I am voting for the President not the VP though Palin lines up with what I believe.
Yes McCain may be older and may not seem as Charismatic as Obama but I will take him any day over Obam and his associations with terrorists, racial haters, and the likes. http://townhall.com/columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2008/10/10/an_unprecedented_candidacy?page=full&comments=true
Comment by jish — October 10, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
OK– I am apparently in the minority, but… if you ask what qualifies Palin for VP, you must also ask what qualifies Obama for president.
Seriously, can you list five things he has accomplished? Not five ideas he has had, or five letters he has written, or five speeches he has made– what are five things he has actually accomplished?
Comment by Chris M — October 10, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
Jish and Chris – therein lies the dilemma. If McCain was younger, there wouldn’t be the real concern that Sarah Palin could actually be our President. He’s 72 and has a number of health issues so we’re not being paranoid here.
Comment by becky — October 10, 2008 @ 8:46 pm
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/271/
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/
Or just google “obama accomplishments”.
Quite honestly, I agree with the cartoon. That said, I’m not crazy about the Dem ticket, either. More likely than not, I will also vote third-party. And please don’t give me that crap about how a vote for a third party is a vote for (insert major candidate here).
Comment by shelly — October 10, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
I think one of the points about this cartoon today is how we as Christians always think we are going to sway/beg God to see our point of view. I could care less for either candidate (no joke) but I prefer to pray that God would continue to be with us no matter who is in charge. Do people really think God was shocked when either Bill Clinton or George Bush (both of them) were elected? I prefer to believe God has it all under control and I can do my part by praying, voting, then praying for whoever is elected.
Comment by Caroline — October 10, 2008 @ 10:13 pm
Things that are dangerous in this world are not just those things that are ‘anti-Christ’ but those that are ‘almost-Christ’ and masquerade as being Godly like democracy (and monarchy!)
Comment by Ben — October 10, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
bill clinton makes me think of king david… obviously not quite as badly behaved as king david… but at least the world felt safer under him… dammit it WAS safer!
… or is that 
?
if sarah palin were to bring her “not blink” way of thinking onto the world stage… well, put it this way, i’d not trust someone like that to hold anything with a trigger attached.
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
what??? this thread hasn’t been hijacked by Ron Paul comments yet?
Actually, I’ve been reading comments on the web from staunch republicans claiming they can’t win after McCain’s latest debate performance. They are actually glad about this because the staunch republicans think McCain is a socialist, but besides that they think that Obama’s presidency will be like Jimmy Carter’s and deliver the White House to Mitt Romney (or Palin) in 4 years’ time. The choice for Americans now is really a bit like choosing between John Major and Tony Blair.
Anyway, I watched a bit of Simon Schama’s history of the USA tonight and was immensely impressed by the ‘Okies’. A group of ordinary people who overfarmed in Oklahoma and lost their farms in the dustbowl catastrophe, but they went on west to California and worked hard to get themselves back on track. They were the type of Americans who made the country great.
Comment by John Ferguson — October 10, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
fascinating john… is it being repeated? his series on britain was excellent.
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
Hmmmm…….
My tendency is to vote Libertarian, so Palin is not much of an issue to me.
Caroline, there in #26 you make a good point.
I don’t understand this “yeah, but Alsaka only has this itty-bitty population so she’s not qualified” thing.
Doesn’t matter the scale, the operating principles are the same.
Seems to me like saying that since one drives a BMW Mini Cooper he is not qualified to drive a Cadillac.
If one wants to pray about candidates, the thing to do is pray that the best one gets in and that he or she is open to hearing and following God’s will and ways.
Regardless of what twistings of those messages men and media throw at them.
And remember this, if a person who pleases God gets the office, it is quite likely God will give to them what is needed to handle the office.
Remember Solomon?
And remember how Solomon screwed up?
The problem with elections is that we only know what it is that media tells about the people running: we don’t know anything first-hand.
Which to me means that we don’t actually “know” anything at all.
later,
Forrest – stressing out about enough things home and health that the election is being mostly ignored at this juncture.
Comment by Forrest — October 10, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
Jon, Schama’s series is on the BBC, so you should be able to watch on the iPlayer. BBC 4 will probably repeat it at some point. And there will probably be books and DVDs as well.
Comment by John Ferguson — October 10, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
go for it anna!
i’m confuzzled (nice word) too as to how the death penalty lines up with biblical christianity… in my bible it doesn’t line up at all.
hi caroline… i can’t see how god can possibly have it all under control… seems to me he actually is withholding any control at all. unless invading iraq was indeed the will of god and the current state of the world is his policy… which i don’t believe it is for one second. indeed i think it is greed, stupidity and selfishness that have led to where we are… nothing to do with god at all.
like becky says… the worry that john mccain might die is a valid one were he in power… he does totter and breathe heavily. these are not criticisms of him, they are facts about him.
i do think that a black president is a good thing. i think it sends a clear message to the rest of the world that america has moved on… true or not, it does leave a good taste in the mouth on this side of the pond. i don’t prefer him to mccain from what i’ve seen of him, but he cuts quite a figure in our media age. he certainly looks like a president.
btw… if i lived in the states i’d probably vote for an independent… were there one who represented my views. in my own country i’m completely confused about who represents what!
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 11:38 pm
the thing is forrest… they all know it’s a media game. the savviest wins. sarah palin doesn’t come over as savvy to me. in fact she seems to talk nonsense sometimes… a bit like bush does. she always seems caught off guard, like every question is a difficult one. it doesn’t seem like she is fully aware of the game she is involved with. she seems self assured though, i’ll give her that.
btw forrest… hope there is an end to the stress soon. hang in there.
cheers john… will try and catch it.
Comment by jonbirch — October 10, 2008 @ 11:46 pm
Please God help me realize that war does not look like Call of Duty or John Wayne in Longest Day. Please God help me realize Wall Street doesn’t just affect my wallet it affects the world. Please God help me understand that spending $2 for every $1 I make is greed not stewardship. Please God help me understand that my SUV doesn’t really need a V8 to go a block to the market. Please God let me understand that love thy neighbor is not saying peace be with you on Sunday… oh yea and please don’t let McCain anywhere near D.C.
Comment by intern — October 11, 2008 @ 6:11 am
I agree with you jon (33) if I lived there I’d vote independent. It would be good to have a black president (or a woman) but not necessarily this one. Because of the dem canditates (black man/white woman) that became the issue rather than what they were standing for. Then of course palin was wheeled out; they obviously didn’t have a black woman to hand, which would have been a real coup.
I know I’m cynical but P-lease!
Comment by botticelliwoman — October 11, 2008 @ 7:41 am
33. I think more people would be psyched about Obama if he had another term or two in the Senate under his belt.
Re a black president – check out the FULL list of candidates for President …
http://www.politics1.com/p2008.htm
The Green Party, Socialist Workers Party, and the Party of Socialism and LIberation all have a woman running for President or Vice President – heck, the Green Party has African American female candidates in both slots and some of the other parties are putting forth a Hispanic candidate. We’ve never had this much diversity on a Presidential ticket ever. Somehow this bit never makes the news. LIke Rudolph, third party candidates aren’t invited to join in the reindeer games as a rule of thumb – Ross Perot got enough support that they let him debate (a major low point in American politics).
BTW-the polls are pure rubbish – they only count landline phones and a good percentage of those of us under 50 only have a cell phone.
Comment by becky — October 11, 2008 @ 7:45 am
AMEN!!!!!
Comment by Laura — October 11, 2008 @ 7:54 am
Just seen on the news that palin has been accused of abuse of power in alaska. Allegedly she and her husband put some pressure on to have palin’s ex-brother-in-law removed from his job (state trooper or something). Hmmmmmmmmmm
Comment by botticelliwoman — October 11, 2008 @ 8:20 am
good to read your debate folks. I feel despondent, and wonder if democracy has been bought out, do either party offer any scope of really bringing peace and hope to the world stage they play on? are they not both just puppets to different groups of vested interests? What was Obama doing when he reassured the Zionists he wouldn’t interfere with their activities? I don’t want to take sides against either as am not American, but I do feel worried about the process that bought Palin to the position of potential VP. And how can a president, elected via this process, fully take on the call to serve, if serving goes against the investment of the groups who have put them there? It feels to me like democracy by numbers
Comment by subo — October 11, 2008 @ 8:46 am
hmm, Palin scares me
but then despite enjoying his impressive oratory.. I have nagging doubt that much of Obama’s comments seem to be as vacuuls as Dave ‘boy’ Camerons (of course we only get soundbites here in the UK, so maybe I haven’t seen more thoughtful stuff – UK TV tends to avoid thoughtful if it can)
but whatever, in terms of what will happen in the world I suspect that we should pay more attention to who’s running Exxon, General Dynamics, BAe and the invisible committees of the MOD and Pentagon than who’s running the Whitehouse!
that is where I suspect power really lies
Comment by Caroline Too — October 11, 2008 @ 10:20 am
vaccuuls
probably should be a word, but I meant to type
vacuous, sorry
Comment by Caroline Too — October 11, 2008 @ 10:21 am
oh Good!
a nice rant about US politics.
Anyway…”they”
over “there”
get it wrong,
all the time.
Go to churh to get into the White House?
We don’t do that here for No 10, dearie me no.
(this means i don’t have to think about what to do here-
GOOD
coz i haven’t a clue……)
Comment by gilly — October 11, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Oh…it Did make me laugh tho…
poss for all the wrong reasons, but i’m grabbing any reason right now!
Comment by gilly — October 11, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
I don’t really like it when someone tells me who to vote for. And I find it amusing when the left is so “fearful”, but they accuse the right of various “phobias”.
I lean more Libertarian, but in this election, will definitely vote for McCain/Palin.
Comment by lolori — October 11, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
it’s not that ‘amusing’ when many innocent people lose their lives in other parts of the globe. i think that is what many are fearful of… including many on the right.
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
i don’t like being told who to vote for either… i wouldn’t do that.
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
I wish people would stop calling Obama “black” – he is not black: he is mixed race with a Caucasian mother.
Calling Obama black completely disses all the mixed race people.
Comment by Forrest — October 11, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
Re: #31 and the car driving analogy. The isolation of Alaska means that a governor there really doesn’t have to worry about international politics, and Palin has failed to indicate otherwise. (Sure, you can “see Russia” but I can see a bank from my house and it doesn’t make me an expert on the economy. Plus the total time Palin has spent in foreign “negotiation”–with fish and trade groups–apparently has been about 12 hours). I think that her potential presidency (should circumstances warrant it) would like giving someone who knows how to change a light bulb the responsibility of rewiring an entire house. What scares me about Palin is the same thing that has horrified me about W. from day one: they don’t know what they don’t know, (which is true of all of us) and have little curiosity to find out. In point of fact: Palin’s inability to name any magazines or newspapers that she reads. She couldn’t name the Anchorage Daily News?
Comment by Mitch — October 11, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Hey Mitch, not to be mean to your or anything – could someone please list all the US state and/or commonwealth governors who do have to worry about international politics?
(when reading my posts do keep in mind that I ain’t voting either Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin)
Comment by Forrest — October 11, 2008 @ 6:29 pm
I’m not particularly in favour of the republican party, but nothing I’ve come across in the news makes me think this outburst is justified.
I love ASBO and will always check regularly, but is this about Jesus or politics, or did I miss the point somewhere?
I agree with Jon’s earlier post that implied democracy isn’t necessarially biblical (Israel’s worst times where when the people united and made decisions based on the peoples collective wisdom) however I think this particular post has more to do with your (Jon’s) personal views than any kind of theological stance, as with most ASBOs.
Comment by youthworkerpete — October 11, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
Well that certainly got the conversation started. I am intrigued by the way many have taken a prayer in the direction human to God instead as a decree from God to human. Curious.
I personally disagree with the prayer “lets dash the heads of their babies on rocks” but I don’t necessarily think that is the view of God.
Personally I can’t see how it is possible to be pro creationism and insist that God created everything, whilst be anti legislation that protects the environment. I think it is too incongruous a political stance…
Comment by Robb — October 11, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
Amen & Thank you – I needed that giggle today!
Comment by Heidi Renee — October 11, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
asbo loves you too youthworkerpete! for all your insight and input over the months (almost years!)
your question re. ‘is this about jesus or politics?’ is an interesting one for me. i never could seperate my faith from my politics, any more than i believe jesus did. i don’t mean party politics, although that comes into it of course, but i mean my faith informs the way i view the world. hence… for me, the idea of sarah palin holding a prominent position in the world is something that makes me think of all the possible repercussions… as i did with george bush (both times round)… and it seems to me that she is a scary proposition when it comes to peace in the middle east or how to deal with terrorism. her rhetoric on that subject certainly is more than a little disturbing. i think maybe, two borrow a portion of her own phrase, she needs to learn how to blink. i don’t want a world leader who wouldn’t blink… i want a thoughtful one.
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
thanks heidi!
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 10:07 pm
i agree robb.
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
shelly… so sorry your comment didn’t come through… i think it’s because there was more than one link, so it meant i had to moderate it. it’s there now though. thanks for your contribution.
Comment by jonbirch — October 11, 2008 @ 10:12 pm
Speaking as a photographer I have to ask wtf is going on with many of the presidential nominees!! How did the prohibition party let that shot go out? More importantly how did this shot make it out there?
http://www.politics1.com/news/lariva.jpg
Comment by Robb — October 12, 2008 @ 12:08 am
thanks Jon, for the post. i’m scared too, and appreciate the support from the other side of the pond.
i’m voting for Obama in this one not because I agree with more of what he says that I do with McCain (or the other folks I’ve heard). I’m not voting for him because he’s perfect, or because I agree with everything, or because I think he can save America.
So yeah…
But I have to say I am deeply saddened by the vitriol coming out of Christians on both sides of this election. C’mon people! When Jesus said “Love thy neighbor,” do you think he meant to say “Love them as long as they aren’t Republican” or “Love them as long as they aren’t a bleeding heart liberal”? Are gun rights more important than the fellowship of the Spirit? Is the economy more important than the bond we share through Christ? Turn down the rhetoric, for CHRIST’S sake!
Thought the comment was a good discussion, starter, but c’mon people… some of you are crossing dangerous lines.
Comment by Joe — October 12, 2008 @ 4:41 am
Ooops. Meant to say “the COMIC was a good discussion starter…”
Comment by Joe — October 12, 2008 @ 4:43 am
hey Forrest re(32) the mini cooper/ caddilac analogy.
I flew a kite once, does that mean I can pilot an Airbus 500?
Jonathan
Comment by Jonathan — October 12, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
Comment by Forrest — October 12, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
Thought just ocurred the you probably will have to have stronger line than the 75lb test used on my 6ft delta on rather windy days.
http://forrestandhismuse.blogspot.com/2008/06/kites-kite-aerial-photography-kap.html
Comment by Forrest — October 12, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
I rarely comment on here, and feel bad I’m doing so in a negative manner, but I love Sarah Palin. She’s an energetic, refreshing, and viable candidate. As a woman, I am so glad to have her running for VP. Finally!!!! A woman could be in the second highest office in the USA. Plus, I live in Pennsylvania, which is one of the swing states that could decide the outcome of this election.
P.S. I still love you, Jon! Politics totally shouldn’t divide folks.
Comment by Amy — October 12, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
thanks amy. jx
i guess as long as politics is adversarial it will continue to divide people. also, i think issues like the invasion of iraq, the war on terror etc. will divide people across the globe. in a way these should divide people. eg. there are those who believe that the invasion of iraq was wrong, unethical, misguided and illegal… i’m one of those. now i don’t want a split between me and others who hold the other view, but when it comes to the deaths of thousands of innocent people and the world becoming far less stable, i will not stand on the same side as those who believe it to be okay. that’s another example of how politics divides…
btw… my cartoon (if you can call it that) is not saying ‘vote obama’, it is simply saying that i think palin is dangerous… i do wonder whether even mccain is beginning to think so.
also… politics in this country is no better it has to be said. democracy has been made a mockery of in both our countries. we went into iraq too… we are equally culpable and have blood on our hands too. i find it all very sad indeed.
when it comes to terror… getting to know your foe and getting dialogue going is the only way. it is very, very hard… but it is the only way… that’s if you truly want to rid the world of terror.
Comment by jonbirch — October 12, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
nice kite forrest! still think you should get the experience and exams before flying the airbus 500 though!
although, i guess, if it’s on a string… and if it’s just a little 6ft canvas airbus 500 that’d be fine. 
Comment by jonbirch — October 12, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
I think it’s great that there’s a woman running for such high office; men and women should have equal opportunities to access these positions of political power. Having said that, I’m not convinced that Palin, despite being a woman, is a good candidate *for* women- look at her extremely hardline stance on abortion, I believe I’m right in saying she doesn’t agree with it even in cases of rape and incest. She scares me too.
Comment by theseoldshades — October 12, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
The whole thing about politics that puts me off is the way in which politicians often put the other side down. I mean, where is the integrity in that? How can you possibly vote for a presidential candidate or vp that lacks integrity? This should be the No.1 (or certainly pretty darned close to the top of the list) of qualities to be looked for in a leader.
In amongst all the commentary and youtube clips about the US presidential elections, one tiny bit stands out, and that was when McCain got booed by his own crowd when he told them to stop calling Obama a terrorist.
A little, too late, perhaps?
Comment by Gavin — October 12, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Bit late in on the discussion… but I find Greg Boyd’s approach to how Christianity and Politics go together (or not) very insightful… for his latest comments which are a nice introduction to what he has to say, click here http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/on-the-campaign-trail/
WWJV?
Comment by Rich — October 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
wwjv?
Why Would Jesus Vote?
Comment by Jonathan — October 12, 2008 @ 5:17 pm
Thank you!
Comment by Antje — October 12, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
you’re welcome antje!
wwjv… who was jules verne?
Comment by jonbirch — October 12, 2008 @ 10:15 pm
Speaking of Jules Verne; I have a project in the design stage to build a balsa wood and cardstock, varnished for waterproofing, 1/72 scale (6ft/1in) model of Nautilus. Will be about 40inches long. Will also be rubberband powered and submergeable.
Only real question is – where do ya PUT that beast in here when it’s done?!?
Comment by Forrest — October 12, 2008 @ 10:28 pm
And diving a few more fathoms off-topic, here we have “The Catalog of Nautilus Designs”
http://home.att.net/~JVNautilus/Catalog/some-designs.html
Comment by Forrest — October 12, 2008 @ 10:33 pm
hey there forrest… nice set of nautili there! what’s your fave… mine’s greg desantis’ “improbable” nautilus. it’s nuts!
Comment by jonbirch — October 12, 2008 @ 10:54 pm
As I noted earlier, we have other females running for President as well as men and women of color. Given how the two party system has hijacked our country, they don’t get to have any platform whatsoever in terms of the debates, etc.
A lot of people decided to back Obama on the grounds that just because Hillary was a woman didn’t mean they supported her policies. Having said that, the rhetoric used throughout this campaign by all parties does make me wonder.
We’ve had 8 years under a President who feels he’s ordained by God and as such has a free pass to wreck havoc in the name of Jesus. I don’t want anyone near the white house who has that viewpoint. And if you read up on Ms. Palin’s religious beliefs, she’s cut of the same cloth.
Comment by becky — October 13, 2008 @ 12:10 am
that’s how i see it becky… we have a similar hijack of democracy here… and i too believe that palin’s religious views are scary… as are bush’s.
Comment by jonbirch — October 13, 2008 @ 12:29 am
Favorite Nautili are about halfway down by Ian Williams; about 3/5 down page Robert Kelley; John McEwan’s – I have the card kit but haven’t yet built it – good looking kit; about 2/3 down William Burningham’s; Jiri Chytil’s; and finally, Didier Jaffrédo at page bottom.
Out of those, Ian Williams’ is one most drawn toand what model will be sort-of based on. Model will have working lights courtesy white LED pirated from Christmas lights.
Comment by Forrest — October 13, 2008 @ 1:15 am
Hey, coincidence Forrest!
I have a project in the design stage to build a balsa wood and cardstock, varnished for waterproofing, 1/72 scale (6ft/1in) model of Sarah Palin. Will be about 1 inch long. Will also be rubber-band powered (though maybe not submergeable).
Actually, a whole line of presidential and vice presidential candidates in balsa wood and rubber-bands would be kind of neat…
Comment by Steve Lancaster — October 13, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Hey Steve, If I remember right,
maximum range/altitude comes when launched at around a 45 degree angle.
Comment by Forrest — October 13, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
What motivated this attack on a political candidate? (Sound of bloggers de-linking ASBO…)
Comment by Steve — October 13, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
I don’t think Jon does this for the numbers, Steve.
For the record, Sarah Palin worries the heck out of most folks on the other side of the pond, me included. And those outside of the Republican faithful inside the USA, from what I can gather.
This because she is rabble rousing and either can’t or won’t see the consequences of her words.
Comment by Steve Lancaster — October 13, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Steve (82). I’d be surprised if any bloggers with ASBO Jesus in their blogroll would be offended by this.
It’s hardly news that Jon (and a number of us who link to him) might feel this way, surely?
Comment by Jonathan — October 13, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
I’m terrified by the thought that Palin might become president, and I don’t even live in the States.
I don’t understand how anyone can hold some of the views she holds and consider themselves a Christian.
Comment by MikeB — October 13, 2008 @ 10:41 pm
AMEN!!!!!
Comment by Andy — October 14, 2008 @ 6:59 am
First it was ‘Bush Derangement Syndrome’ and now it’s Palin Derangement Syndrome. She’s a conservative and she shores up McCain’s political base. Get over it. People seem to have more trouble with a genuine conservative than with an untried socialist with ties to terrorists. PDS strikes again.
I live in the States and as a political science/international affairs buff I am interested in how other nations view our political processes. And sometimes I just have to scratch my head at how folks come unhinged.
Comment by Steve — October 15, 2008 @ 2:48 am
hmmm… iraq steve? if by ‘unhinged’ you mean ‘concerned’… outside the states, most of us are. so, your obama concerns aren’t at all ‘deranged’ then? i have to say, you seem less ‘interested’ and more ’scornful’ towards how the rest of the world views your processes. btw. it is not the processes that trouble me so much as the outcomes. god forbid we ever have a repeat of the bush administration… i do believe america won’t allow more of the same… i hope not. enough people have died already.
Comment by jonbirch — October 15, 2008 @ 3:54 am
I suspect that untried is a word that can be leveled at any of the presidential candidates. Unless any of them can claim to belong on the list that ends with GW Bush…
Comment by Robb — October 15, 2008 @ 11:34 am
BTW, I’m still bemused as to how having an opinion or preference can so quickly be denounced as “hatred” and so quickly turn to vitriolic bile.
Oh well. I guess we should move on to something less politically charged like the ordination of women bishops…
Comment by Robb — October 15, 2008 @ 11:38 am
@Steve (87)
“an untried socialist with ties to terrorists”.
He once sat on the board of a charity alongside a member who was once part of a “terrorist” organisation. He’s publicly denounced said person’s former activities.
I don’t really think this can be counted as ties with terrorists.
McCain, however…
He funded the Contras, a guerrilla group who have tortured and murdered hundreds of people.
He also endorses Oliver North, under whose direction the US sold Iran nearly $58 million worth of weapons (including missiles) despite the US government classifying Iran as a sponsor of international terrorism.
What about his support of G. Gordon Liddy? GGL is famous for helping to mastermind the Watergate break ins and has also publicly advocated killing officers from the Bureau of AT&F. Less well known is the fact that he also called for kidnap of anti-war activists in the 70s and may have been part of a plot to murder an “unfriendly” reporter.
Has McCain ever publicly denounced any of these? No. He continues to support both North and Liddy and has accepted a fair amount of donations from Liddy to his various campaigns.
It’s preposterous to think that Obama would implement a series of bombings just like Ayers did, but it’s not so far fetched to think that McCain may carry on in the same vein without ever being questioned about it.
All the stuff I have mentioned is out there, Google is your friend.
Comment by MikeB — October 15, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
me too robb.
hi mikeb… i guess that’s what happens when people hang around the corridors of power too long. as for this obama terrorist nonsense… i guess you just have to trust that most people aren’t so daft as to be sucked in by this stuff… i know some are.
thanks for the comment.
Comment by jonbirch — October 15, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
Jon –
Comment by Robb — October 15, 2008 @ 11:13 pm
No one would suggest that Obama is a terrorist, but he hangs with people who are unrepentant terrorists. Bill Ayers said recently that he wishes he had done more when they placed bombs in the Pentagon and in judges’ homes. Obama had his political coming-out party in Ayers’ home. Some suggest that Ayers ghost-wrote one or both of Obama’s ‘autobiographies’.
The issue, though, is your reaction to Gov. Palin, which to me seems unreasonable. Is it the fact that she’s a professing Christian? Or a young-earth creationist? Or that she opposes socialist government programs?
Comment by Steve — October 16, 2008 @ 2:23 am
One of my issues with her is that she believes that all women who are raped should be forced to carry the baby through to term, even if it’s a case of incest.
I have tried and tried and tried but I cannot get my head round how someone can actually hold this viewpoint.
Perhaps I’m not enough of a maverick…
Comment by MikeB — October 16, 2008 @ 9:16 am
Oh, and Jon, far too many have been sucked in by it, that’s the problem. Character assassination is still a formidable political weapon.
Steve: You said “No one would suggest that Obama is a terrorist, but he hangs with people who are unrepentant terrorists.”. Did you read my post? McCain does exactly the same thing that you accuse Obama of doing, but I’ll wager you can just conveniently ignore that fact…
In the end, Jon was only expressing his opinion anyway and he’s fully entitled to hold it. There have been some venemous attacks on him here but you’ll not get one from me.
Keep at it Jon, I check in a couple of times a day since this site was shown to me a few weeks ago (and I’ve already read all the comics
) but this comic is the first time I’ve been brave enough to comment.
Comment by MikeB — October 16, 2008 @ 9:23 am
there are several things steve. one is, she too would have gone into iraq… this was always wrong and illegal in my view and i think the white house and the rest of the world would really benefit from a change of heart and attitude from the new incumbents. she has no experience of dealing with other countries… i guess this feels less important for many american voters, but it is vitally important when viewed from outside america.
perfectly fine that she’s a professing christian… but one or two of the conclusions she draws from her particular brand of faith i think are far too black and white.
as i’ve said before, i worry about her ‘no blink’ attitude. to beat terrorism (it isn’t a war) she needs to have a far more thoughtful approach… she’ll need to be able to enter into dialogue with people she doesn’t like.
i find her approach to the creation really weird… if she is a young earth creationist, why is she so intent on pillaging it? i don’t understand how you can be a creationist and hold no concept of stewardship. also, resources are for sharing, it is a basic biblical requirement…
i could go on… in fact i have gone on… i hope this clarifies my thoughts for you a little.
Comment by jonbirch — October 16, 2008 @ 9:43 am
mikeb… welcome! glad you felt brave!
to be honest, the personal attacks are fine, so long as they aren’t offensive. i knew when i put this cartoon up it’d get a few reactions. part of the job really.
the questions steve asked are good and valid… and i always welcome conversation, even when we hold different views. i guess that’s the way we learn. nice to have you here!
Comment by jonbirch — October 16, 2008 @ 9:49 am
I’m enjoying arguing debating with Steve.
Questions that lead to debate and discussion are good. Attacks, not so much.
I’m hoping to kick my new collaborative blog off sometime this week and I suspect I might write a piece on this thread (shameless plug, I know
).
Best,
M
Comment by MikeB — October 16, 2008 @ 9:55 am
Surely an ‘unrepentant terrorist’ is just a terrorist. A ‘repentant terrorist’ would cease to be a terrorist and would cease to be referred to as such…
Comment by Robb — October 16, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
Funny site!
Comment by Cate — October 18, 2008 @ 9:04 am
[...] ASBO Jesus gets political [...]
Pingback by Random Acts of Linkage #82 : Subversive Influence — October 18, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Lol! I don’t have the time to read all these comments. But this made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
Comment by Sarah — October 19, 2008 @ 4:33 am
You liberal Christians can be so arrogant and presumptuous. Jon, how hard would it have been for you to discover Palin’s running mate’s name is spelled “McCain?”
Look, you don’t have to like her. I don’t think she’s particularly qualified, and she’s far from perfect. If you’re in the U.S. and you can vote, please vote for whomever you think will do the most good. If you’re not in the U.S., your opinion doesn’t matter, just as my preferences regarding foreign elections is irrelevant.
Praying for a candidate to not win an election is arrogant, too. I’m voting McCain/Palin, but I pray only that the right candidate will win. Whose to say I know what’s best?
Generally, I’ve loved the ASBO Jesus cartoons. This was petty, one-sided, proud, and disappointing. I expected better.
Comment by Nathan — October 19, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
Surely if an opinion outside the US is irrelevant (which to be frank is an attitude that has done and continues to do the US no favours around the world), why are people getting so upset about it?
Comment by Robb — October 19, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
Sorry, with five minutes of contemplation, I realise that making judgements about who should rule another country is wrong. Please exhume Sadam Hussain and reanimate him. The decision was an irrelevant one….
Comment by Robb — October 19, 2008 @ 6:00 pm
#104 Nathan, I don’t think it’s arrogant to pray for a candidate not to win an election.
God has blessed us with brains and the ability to research and analyze and question. I think he has given us a responsibility to inform ourselves of what is happening in the world, what the candidates are proposing and the implications of these proposals.
If a politician supports or encourages dangerous and harmful attitudes and courses of action, then I believe it is not wrong to pray they do not win an election, it is using the brain and discernment God has given us. For example, do you think was wrong to pray that Mugabe lost the election in Zimbabwe?
Furthermore, I disagree that the cartoon was petty. Obviously cartoons depict concepts in a catching and simple manner. I think if you read Jon’s comments he has taken pains to be well informed and takes the issues involved very seriously.
Thanks for provoking such an interesting discussion Jon.
Comment by Cate — October 19, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
And what she said!!
Comment by Robb — October 20, 2008 @ 12:05 am
@106 Robb:
You beat me to it mate. Just what I was thinking.
The US interfering in the running of other countries is completely unheard of
Comment by MikeB — October 22, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
Comment by Robb — October 22, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
boo, bad form.
mixing religion, politics, and satire all at the same time is a very bad practice.
Comment by js — October 23, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
@js:
nope, good form. how else will we change the way the world is going, by quietly praying to ourselves?
Comment by henry — October 23, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
I could have posted this under cartoon 580, but it didn’t seem to quite fit with the mood, so I’m posting it here.
I’ve encountered the following anagram “Sarah Palin Vice President” “is perhaps devil incarnate”. So it’s good for her sake as well as everyone else’s that it hasn’t come to fruition.
Comment by rebecca — November 5, 2008 @ 4:39 pm