You know, Jon, this could be a still from Futurama with the neat, ironic, cultural reference.
The demise of Woolworths has led to my reflecting a lot on how the world of commerce has changed in my lifetime. Rather than hog space here, I will lament at length on my own blog, but my overall feelings can be summed up by saying that the loss of Woolworths is symbolic, to me at least, of something far greater. Woolworths is one of the old fashioned companies, who had quite a patriarchal role in the lives of their workforce. They belonged to the old giants of business/industry. They looked after their workers and placed a value on company loyalty (in the old days anyway). Not only did the workers get a fair financial remuneration for their work, they often found themselves in receipt of good, final salary company pensions, profit sharing bonuses, staff discounts and more. There was an ethos of ‘a job for life’. People weren’t so bothered about job-hopping as they have to be now. If you fancied a change of job, you could apply for internal vacancies. I remember working for Littlewoods and they paid for me to do day release and gave me a financial reward and lunch for passing the exams, along with the many others in the company who courses. We had a group photo taken with Mr John (Sir John Moores) and Miss Littlewoods (yes, how times have changed!) It was like being part of a huge family and we felt looked after…at least until the Iron Lady abolished community in favour of the individual. Sorry to rattle on… I will retreat to my own space to ramble some more. But yes…sad times.
#4 i work for a good company…but its strange how that good feeling quickly evaporates…access to training cut…having to work harder and longer because of lay offs…people protecting their own little domains…not nice
#7 i have no doubt that picknmix could fuel a helicoptor…give a bag to my kids and they go sky high
I suspect that Woolworths is not that symbolic about our culture, although I recognise some of the
losses in companies that Carole (#6) writes about.
Rather, it is closer to Marconi in its downfall and that is a bit of a worry for people like me who
claim to be able to teach people how to manage businesses.
Marconi crashed because it followed one of the core teachings of strategy “focus on a core of
specialisms” – the trouble was that it didn’t spot that it was paying too much for worthless,
insubstantial businesses
Woolworths, in the UK, failed because it followed the logic of going up market to
increase profit margins. the trouble has been that it got lost, left behind it’s old customers and
left behind it’s old product lines. (just take a look at Wilkinsons – sorry UK business
references here – to see that there is still good business to be done where Woolies used to be!)
sorry, simplistic business lesson over.
but it does leave me wondering…
what fashions and fads are we following in church at the moment, whilst taking our eyes off the key
issues?
Comment by Caroline Too — January 12, 2009 @ 11:41 am
Caroline Too – Nail….. head….
Carole – Company loyalty has well and truly gone… pushed out in the name of productivity. We have increased the management in an attempt to make the lower eschelons work harder.
At the pit, the miners were fiercely loyal to each other. They worked hard because if they didn’t they were letting their friends, family and community down because the others would have to do their share of the work as well as their own.
This worked in the opposite direction of course. When Dad was suffering from a massive tumour in his bowel that went undiagnosed for 2 years, his friends did his share of the work because they knew something was seriously wrong with him* and that he would do the same for them. They had all been working together for 20 years.
This played itself out in the community too. As kids we were taken en mass in a coach to blackpool illuminations, christmas parties, flamingo land… etc etc etc all on the basis of being part of that community. Brass bands and the majorettes… all because of company loyalty and community based work/life being intertwined.
This is the same with any company. If you are a teacher and you feel valued by the school and the community you go out of your way to go the extra mile. You organise a week long trip to the lake district working with dissadvantaged kids from your community during your holidays (or whatever).
As you point out, at some point in time some of the countries leadership decided that it was a bad idea and made us all individualistic.
I worked for a company answering telephones in the dim and distant past. The staff were treated like crap and usually left within 2 months because of a system based upon a league table of productivity**. This meant that no one answering the phone could use the computers or knew anything about what was going on. A manager went into a meeting with the upper eschelons of the ‘large telecommunications company who shall remain nameless’ and said “High staff turnover is good for the business because it means that we have enthusiastic hard working new members of staff”. And they managed to ruin that within 2 months!!
I wonder what happened to the concept of “going to work, getting paid, spending it on your family”. Now we have “go to this job for a few months, get credit, spend it on a playstation 3″.
*admittedly down the pit it is hard to keep something like bowel cancer to your self as you all use the same hole in the ground.
I seem to have rambled…
** Aren’t league tables great. I saw an article in a tabloid last year lambasting schools because they couldn’t believe that half of pupils in this country were below the average reading age!!
People forget that there is no way to get rid of the bottom of a league table. Today they are talking about Doncaster social services being at the bottom of the table. Improve them!! There will always be a bottom of the table. It will be someone else who is there.
(Totally off topic but) school league tables are stupid. My Dad worked at a school in a rough part of town that was apparently “failing” whilst the comprehensive with delusions of grandeur i was at did well in inspections and exam results so must be wonderful.
Never mind half the teachers at my school were rubbish and would have got eaten alive/quit after 5 minutes where my Dad worked. It was like saying Forest Green are a failing football club cos they don’t win as many trophies as Chelsea. Aaargh. If they at least looked at the improvement between the kids behaviour and “performance” (yuk) on arrival in year 7 and departure in year 11, then it wouldn’t be quite so bad. If the Schools at the bottom of the table were the ones that actually were failing their students… grrr. rant over =]
I saw an article in a tabloid last year lambasting schools because they couldn’t believe that half of pupils in this country were below the average reading age!!
Dear, dear, Robb! Aren’t you being a little MEAN-spirited…I shouldn’t be surprised, after all, undervaluing the MEDIA(N) is a la MODE these days. Anyway, I can’t believe your comment truly reflects tabloid opinion since they target their writing at the average Beano reader!
I see a lot of analogies between what Carole is talking about and the church – we’re in this period where the empire is indeed crumbling on numerous fronts – and yet there’s such a tremendous need for community now that I didn’t sense even a few years ago.
“It was like being part of a huge family and we felt looked after…at least until the Iron Lady abolished community in favour of the individual”
in my view we will have to return to this way of doing things, working co-operatively together, just to survive. it would be nice to see some community focused initiatives, budding up in the current u.k. job market – a couple of summers ago I heard a Vicar talking about a project he set up, to build more links with the community and protect the environment. He set up a business delivering groceries for the Co-Op in inner city Glos., I enjoyed the way he talked about his faith and work linking together.
Subo – I had an interesting conversation with the Bishop about this. He pointed out that our mining communities collapsed when the pits were shut. The pit was more than a work place, it was the centre of community. Everyone knew each other and supported each other and focussed upon it. The brass band, the trips, the majorettes, WMC’s, the childrens christmas parties etc. When the pit shut the community had no focus or gathering and the church didn’t act to keep that going. Now it has gone and is no more and we failed.
I wonder how you work to build that community cohesion once more.
I think the church is in a good position to right these wrongs. We can serve, and provide focal points and meeting points. People around here really appreciate it when the churches get on and organise or do something, and they do come in. Its a case of seeing what needs there are locally, like in the old days when the church was the hub of a community. Organise environmental stuff, art, toddlers etc. Needs the members to be willing to serve though, without a definate “result”.
Agreed Kim, and actually i’d go further: Can’t think of anyone who has joined in with the community at our place cos of some impressive light show or fancy theology argument. But i’m smiling thinking of the family who our whole church effectively adopted last year cos they started comin’ along to the mums and toddlers group and it all snowballed from there.
i reckon even if your attitude is entirely “result” driven, which it shouldn’t be, meeting the needs of your wider community would still come out pretty high up the agenda.
Kim and Linus, you are absolutely right – the numbers game should never come into it where faith is concerned. I would really like to ‘big up’ what Church does generally. I am hard pressed to think of any worthwhile community activity around my area which does not stem from one of the numerous church communities. I think most communities would fall apart without churches running youth groups, mums and tots, lunches for retired people (not sure what the acceptable term is these days!), hostels for the homeless, clothing and food for those on low income and the list goes on. The sad thing about it is that it is usually a core group from each church running themselves ragged doing stuff. I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…
But back to the business link, I don’t think Jesus would want us to merely respond to market forces.
Hi Robb “mining communities collapsed when the pits were shut”, just illustrates the damage dualism bought to our culture, in seeing spiritual and material life as separate
I hear some village churches have been hosting Post Offices, in the church, in preference to seeing them closed
I do really value the way church cafe’s, toddler groups, AA meetings, ect work from churches, just wondering if there’s any other projects it would be good to see alive and kicking down the local church?
“I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…” WHAT ARE YOU THINKING WOMAN!? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MARBLES!!!
i’ve never thought about the fact that there’s always a bottom of the list. brilliant thought.
all this faffing around with league tables and wotnot in schools gets on my wick! just seems to get in the way of people doing their jobs and puts everyone under undue strain. i do so love a hands-on government.
ooh dear yes, the iron lady. her, ronald reagan and the rest of us that let it happen are still sleeping in the soiled sheets from those miserable, selfish, community denying days. if she gets one of those fancy burials they give kings and queens i think i’ll organise a protest of my own. i might record a version of ‘ding dong the witch is dead.’
i just heard homer simpson in my head saying “mmmmmmmmm – pick ‘n’ mix (drool).” i just thought i’d share with you the kind of nonsense that goes on in there.
Jon — you need to be more careful what you write in the small hours. If you are claiming that your head contains nonsense (#24), isn’t there a risk that readers will regard your other comments (such as #23) as nonsense as well?!
Subo (20) – We seem to be constantly focussing on the problem solving (and this is no bad thing, continute with the community action!) without engaging with the community building. The things that the mining communities did were aimed at creating community rather than solving your problems. The majorettes were focussed on having a laugh and bringing young people together working towards a common cause. Twirling a batton isn’t going to change the world but it is going to bring you together with your community.
We often forget to have fun in the church.
Oh Carole – “I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…”
I have been asking this for years. When the Methodists, Anglicans and Romans all got together and did the stations of the cross up the high street there was a grand total of 100 people at the begining and 170 at the end as people just kept wondering what was going on and wanting to find out….
Rebecca – nonsense is what makes the serious stuff bearable! If I removed the nonsense from my head, after a couple of days I would be removing my head because of the other stuff!
By 3000AD we’ll surely have hovershoes! I’ve seen Back to the Future…
Comment by ED... — January 12, 2009 @ 1:45 am
maybe it’s just that Retro is in that year?
Comment by Forrest — January 12, 2009 @ 4:35 am
Where’s the talking apes?
Comment by becky — January 12, 2009 @ 5:41 am
3001AD the empire strikes back.
Comment by dennis — January 12, 2009 @ 7:39 am
I wonder what’s powering the helicopter as the all the petroleum based aviation fuel will have run out by then?
Comment by miriworm — January 12, 2009 @ 8:59 am
You know, Jon, this could be a still from Futurama with the neat, ironic, cultural reference.
The demise of Woolworths has led to my reflecting a lot on how the world of commerce has changed in my lifetime. Rather than hog space here, I will lament at length on my own blog, but my overall feelings can be summed up by saying that the loss of Woolworths is symbolic, to me at least, of something far greater. Woolworths is one of the old fashioned companies, who had quite a patriarchal role in the lives of their workforce. They belonged to the old giants of business/industry. They looked after their workers and placed a value on company loyalty (in the old days anyway). Not only did the workers get a fair financial remuneration for their work, they often found themselves in receipt of good, final salary company pensions, profit sharing bonuses, staff discounts and more. There was an ethos of ‘a job for life’. People weren’t so bothered about job-hopping as they have to be now. If you fancied a change of job, you could apply for internal vacancies. I remember working for Littlewoods and they paid for me to do day release and gave me a financial reward and lunch for passing the exams, along with the many others in the company who courses. We had a group photo taken with Mr John (Sir John Moores) and Miss Littlewoods (yes, how times have changed!) It was like being part of a huge family and we felt looked after…at least until the Iron Lady abolished community in favour of the individual. Sorry to rattle on… I will retreat to my own space to ramble some more. But yes…sad times.
Comment by Carole — January 12, 2009 @ 10:35 am
Aviation fuel may have run out but helicopters will have been modified to run on the surplus of picknmix
Comment by les — January 12, 2009 @ 10:38 am
#3 still running the banks?
#4 i work for a good company…but its strange how that good feeling quickly evaporates…access to training cut…having to work harder and longer because of lay offs…people protecting their own little domains…not nice
#7
i have no doubt that picknmix could fuel a helicoptor…give a bag to my kids and they go sky high
Comment by darrin — January 12, 2009 @ 11:10 am
I suspect that Woolworths is not that symbolic about our culture, although I recognise some of the
losses in companies that Carole (#6) writes about.
Rather, it is closer to Marconi in its downfall and that is a bit of a worry for people like me who
claim to be able to teach people how to manage businesses.
Marconi crashed because it followed one of the core teachings of strategy “focus on a core of
specialisms” – the trouble was that it didn’t spot that it was paying too much for worthless,
insubstantial businesses
Woolworths, in the UK, failed because it followed the logic of going up market to
increase profit margins. the trouble has been that it got lost, left behind it’s old customers and
left behind it’s old product lines. (just take a look at Wilkinsons – sorry UK business
references here – to see that there is still good business to be done where Woolies used to be!)
sorry, simplistic business lesson over.
but it does leave me wondering…
what fashions and fads are we following in church at the moment, whilst taking our eyes off the key
issues?
Comment by Caroline Too — January 12, 2009 @ 11:41 am
Caroline Too – Nail….. head….
Carole – Company loyalty has well and truly gone… pushed out in the name of productivity. We have increased the management in an attempt to make the lower eschelons work harder.
At the pit, the miners were fiercely loyal to each other. They worked hard because if they didn’t they were letting their friends, family and community down because the others would have to do their share of the work as well as their own.
This worked in the opposite direction of course. When Dad was suffering from a massive tumour in his bowel that went undiagnosed for 2 years, his friends did his share of the work because they knew something was seriously wrong with him* and that he would do the same for them. They had all been working together for 20 years.
This played itself out in the community too. As kids we were taken en mass in a coach to blackpool illuminations, christmas parties, flamingo land… etc etc etc all on the basis of being part of that community. Brass bands and the majorettes… all because of company loyalty and community based work/life being intertwined.
This is the same with any company. If you are a teacher and you feel valued by the school and the community you go out of your way to go the extra mile. You organise a week long trip to the lake district working with dissadvantaged kids from your community during your holidays (or whatever).
As you point out, at some point in time some of the countries leadership decided that it was a bad idea and made us all individualistic.
I worked for a company answering telephones in the dim and distant past. The staff were treated like crap and usually left within 2 months because of a system based upon a league table of productivity**. This meant that no one answering the phone could use the computers or knew anything about what was going on. A manager went into a meeting with the upper eschelons of the ‘large telecommunications company who shall remain nameless’ and said “High staff turnover is good for the business because it means that we have enthusiastic hard working new members of staff”. And they managed to ruin that within 2 months!!
I wonder what happened to the concept of “going to work, getting paid, spending it on your family”. Now we have “go to this job for a few months, get credit, spend it on a playstation 3″.
*admittedly down the pit it is hard to keep something like bowel cancer to your self as you all use the same hole in the ground.
I seem to have rambled…
** Aren’t league tables great. I saw an article in a tabloid last year lambasting schools because they couldn’t believe that half of pupils in this country were below the average reading age!!
People forget that there is no way to get rid of the bottom of a league table. Today they are talking about Doncaster social services being at the bottom of the table. Improve them!! There will always be a bottom of the table. It will be someone else who is there.
Comment by Robb — January 12, 2009 @ 12:17 pm
(Totally off topic but) school league tables are stupid. My Dad worked at a school in a rough part of town that was apparently “failing” whilst the comprehensive with delusions of grandeur i was at did well in inspections and exam results so must be wonderful.
Never mind half the teachers at my school were rubbish and would have got eaten alive/quit after 5 minutes where my Dad worked. It was like saying Forest Green are a failing football club cos they don’t win as many trophies as Chelsea. Aaargh. If they at least looked at the improvement between the kids behaviour and “performance” (yuk) on arrival in year 7 and departure in year 11, then it wouldn’t be quite so bad. If the Schools at the bottom of the table were the ones that actually were failing their students… grrr. rant over =]
Comment by Linus — January 12, 2009 @ 12:53 pm
I saw an article in a tabloid last year lambasting schools because they couldn’t believe that half of pupils in this country were below the average reading age!!
Dear, dear, Robb! Aren’t you being a little MEAN-spirited…I shouldn’t be surprised, after all, undervaluing the MEDIA(N) is a la MODE these days. Anyway, I can’t believe your comment truly reflects tabloid opinion since they target their writing at the average Beano reader!
Comment by Carole — January 12, 2009 @ 12:53 pm
I see a lot of analogies between what Carole is talking about and the church – we’re in this period where the empire is indeed crumbling on numerous fronts – and yet there’s such a tremendous need for community now that I didn’t sense even a few years ago.
Comment by becky — January 12, 2009 @ 1:09 pm
“It was like being part of a huge family and we felt looked after…at least until the Iron Lady abolished community in favour of the individual”
in my view we will have to return to this way of doing things, working co-operatively together, just to survive. it would be nice to see some community focused initiatives, budding up in the current u.k. job market – a couple of summers ago I heard a Vicar talking about a project he set up, to build more links with the community and protect the environment. He set up a business delivering groceries for the Co-Op in inner city Glos., I enjoyed the way he talked about his faith and work linking together.
Comment by subo — January 12, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
Subo – I had an interesting conversation with the Bishop about this. He pointed out that our mining communities collapsed when the pits were shut. The pit was more than a work place, it was the centre of community. Everyone knew each other and supported each other and focussed upon it. The brass band, the trips, the majorettes, WMC’s, the childrens christmas parties etc. When the pit shut the community had no focus or gathering and the church didn’t act to keep that going. Now it has gone and is no more and we failed.
I wonder how you work to build that community cohesion once more.
Comment by Robb — January 12, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
I think the church is in a good position to right these wrongs. We can serve, and provide focal points and meeting points. People around here really appreciate it when the churches get on and organise or do something, and they do come in. Its a case of seeing what needs there are locally, like in the old days when the church was the hub of a community. Organise environmental stuff, art, toddlers etc. Needs the members to be willing to serve though, without a definate “result”.
Comment by Kim — January 12, 2009 @ 4:10 pm
Agreed Kim, and actually i’d go further: Can’t think of anyone who has joined in with the community at our place cos of some impressive light show or fancy theology argument. But i’m smiling thinking of the family who our whole church effectively adopted last year cos they started comin’ along to the mums and toddlers group and it all snowballed from there.
i reckon even if your attitude is entirely “result” driven, which it shouldn’t be, meeting the needs of your wider community would still come out pretty high up the agenda.
Comment by Linus — January 12, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
Kim and Linus, you are absolutely right – the numbers game should never come into it where faith is concerned. I would really like to ‘big up’ what Church does generally. I am hard pressed to think of any worthwhile community activity around my area which does not stem from one of the numerous church communities. I think most communities would fall apart without churches running youth groups, mums and tots, lunches for retired people (not sure what the acceptable term is these days!), hostels for the homeless, clothing and food for those on low income and the list goes on. The sad thing about it is that it is usually a core group from each church running themselves ragged doing stuff. I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…
But back to the business link, I don’t think Jesus would want us to merely respond to market forces.
Comment by Carole — January 12, 2009 @ 6:09 pm
“…And those pointy buildings used to be what they called a ‘church’…”
Comment by JF — January 12, 2009 @ 8:37 pm
Hi Robb “mining communities collapsed when the pits were shut”, just illustrates the damage dualism bought to our culture, in seeing spiritual and material life as separate
I hear some village churches have been hosting Post Offices, in the church, in preference to seeing them closed
I do really value the way church cafe’s, toddler groups, AA meetings, ect work from churches, just wondering if there’s any other projects it would be good to see alive and kicking down the local church?
Comment by subo — January 12, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
Good thing God is Unchanging.
They probably have a pic n mix counter and Stationary in Heaven anyhoo
Comment by Anna — January 12, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
19. But then they realised that the church was the people and not the pointy building at all =]
But if you’re predicting the church will be extinct… i dunno. I tend to think Gamaliel knew his onions (acts 5 v27-39 if you’re interested)
Comment by Linus — January 12, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
“I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…” WHAT ARE YOU THINKING WOMAN!? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MARBLES!!!
i’ve never thought about the fact that there’s always a bottom of the list. brilliant thought.
all this faffing around with league tables and wotnot in schools gets on my wick! just seems to get in the way of people doing their jobs and puts everyone under undue strain. i do so love a hands-on government.
ooh dear yes, the iron lady. her, ronald reagan and the rest of us that let it happen are still sleeping in the soiled sheets from those miserable, selfish, community denying days. if she gets one of those fancy burials they give kings and queens i think i’ll organise a protest of my own. i might record a version of ‘ding dong the witch is dead.’
Comment by jonbirch — January 13, 2009 @ 4:20 am
i just heard homer simpson in my head saying “mmmmmmmmm – pick ‘n’ mix (drool).” i just thought i’d share with you the kind of nonsense that goes on in there.
Comment by jonbirch — January 13, 2009 @ 4:22 am
Jon — you need to be more careful what you write in the small hours. If you are claiming that your head contains nonsense (#24), isn’t there a risk that readers will regard your other comments (such as #23) as nonsense as well?!
Comment by rebecca — January 13, 2009 @ 12:03 pm
Subo (20) – We seem to be constantly focussing on the problem solving (and this is no bad thing, continute with the community action!) without engaging with the community building. The things that the mining communities did were aimed at creating community rather than solving your problems. The majorettes were focussed on having a laugh and bringing young people together working towards a common cause. Twirling a batton isn’t going to change the world but it is going to bring you together with your community.
We often forget to have fun in the church.
Oh Carole – “I often wonder what would happen if everyone ignored their denominational boundaries and got on with it together…”
I have been asking this for years. When the Methodists, Anglicans and Romans all got together and did the stations of the cross up the high street there was a grand total of 100 people at the begining and 170 at the end as people just kept wondering what was going on and wanting to find out….
Rebecca – nonsense is what makes the serious stuff bearable! If I removed the nonsense from my head, after a couple of days I would be removing my head because of the other stuff!
Comment by Robb — January 13, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
“All empires eventually crumble and die.”
Or is that “die and crumble”?
What “empires” inside Me and within My Life are going to eventually crumble and die?
Are there some which SHOULD crumble?
And the sooner the better?
Comment by Forrest — January 13, 2009 @ 11:23 pm