‘he leads me by still waters and into green pastures’ or ‘i will never leave you nor forsake you’ or ‘i have loved you with an everlasting love’ ? Might be a way to combat the nasty thoughts?
I was taught to write them out on bits of card and i know its very simplistic and I don’t want to ‘bible bash’ but sometimes i need something tangible in my hand to remind me, and help me to conquer the fear my own thoughts bring.
As I looked at it the words ‘even through I walk through a valley as dark as death, you are with me’ came to mind along with the end of the Jewish ghetto prayer ‘I believe in God, though God be silent’
If the man is you, may you find the way out of the dark place. If someone else may they.
yes we do beatthedrum… but just you try doing it while experiencing fight or flight and having thoughts rushing at nine million miles an hour. very, very hard indeed.
Powerful cartoon, Jon. And aren’t your thoughts just like that when you have an anxiety disorder – huge looming dark forms just circling in on you?
The ‘take your thoughts captive’ verse is an interesting one. I don’t think it means control your thoughts, (because this is impossible), so I think it must mean give them the importance they deserve, which is usually very little when you are threat sensitive or have an anxiety disorder.
The question is of course ‘How do we take our thoughts captive?’
I had this problem, as i have suffered from clinical depression in the past, and its one that at times i still suffer from.
Reading book by David Holden called “Battle for the mind” helped me, and lots of time with Jesus of course.
Not there yet but the thoughts are less often and not so LOUD!
Comment by beatthedrum — March 20, 2009 @ 11:42 am
sorry beatthedrum… i didn’t think for a moment it was an attack… i didn’t mean to sound at all defensive either, merely to fill in the picture a bit more, which your question gave me the opportunity to do. please accept a humble smiley.
Lol its hard to tell on here sometimes Jon, but i know from past discussions your not that agressive, at least not to me
Comment by beatthedrum — March 20, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
An elderly monastic I know said a few wise words about thoughts.
You can’t help having them.
You don’t have to agree with them.
You don’t have to dwell on them and let them shape you.
An example, having a racist thought doesn’t make you a bad person in itself. It is possible to respond to it be thinking “Hang on, I don’t agree with that”.
It is of course possible to dwell upon that thought and steep yourself in it and become shaped by it and become a racist. That is a problem.
I found myself still pondering about this all when I had a walk outside in the sun this avo. Meanwhile this song was playing on my mp3player and thought I’d share..
“Set Me Free”
It hasn’t always been this way
I remember brighter days
Before the dark ones came
Stole my mind
Wrapped my soul in chains
Now I live among the dead
Fighting voices in my head
Hoping someone hears me crying in the night
And carries me away
Set me free of the chains
holding me
Is anybody out there
hearing me?
Set me free
Morning breaks another day
Finds me crying in the rain
All alone with my demons I am
Who is this man that comes my way?
The dark ones shriek
They scream His name
Is this the One they say will set the captives free?
Jesus, rescue me!!
As the God man passes by
He looks straight through my eyes
and darkness cannot hide
“Do you want to be free?
Lift your chains,
I hold the key.
All power on Heav’n and Earth belong to ME.
You are free!
You are free!
You are free!”
It’s probably all not too hard-core ASBO, and for some perhaps even simply “too easy”, but filling our minds with His words (reading the Bible) and/or words about Him (tapes, books and of course music) often takes the focus off of ourselves so that we can see Him more clearly..
The most precious thing I still remember and hold close from my dad when he passed away is 11 years ago was: “just try to stay close to Jesus, keep your eyes on Him..”
Can still hear him say those words to me..
And doing that surely helped me thru so many situations and circumstances. Actually turned out to be the only thing that calmed me down..it brought and brings peace to my often so troubled soul and my ever worrying spirit quiets down. It honestly helps me to get my thoughts a bit more into perspective..
most definitely fish days! He was my one and only role model which probably explains why I am such a mess (ha) the words were from blind curve i think. I didn’t think anyone would know who they were I was going to explain but i forgot. Does that mean you are a marillion fan too?
but they couldn’t find enough evidence to convict me, so I got off!
Comment by Caroline Too — March 21, 2009 @ 10:33 am
the trouble with thoughts is that we think that they precede action
that’s very optimistic!
that they, in some way, define an individual,
that’s a very western way of ‘thinking’ about people, and
very damaging
that thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual
we’re now descending to folly. popular folly, folly supported by pop-psychology and by so-called-serious psychology,
but folly nonetheless
but what if thoughts are just a type of action? and are created
socially in the conversations we’re part of
and those conversations that hang around our story telling memories,
affecting the conversations that we have ’symbolically’ with
others, when on our own…
are we, as individuals, guilty (or praiseworthy) for thoughts that
are owned and created by our social circle?
I think not
but where ‘our’ thoughts are potentially damaging, where our
social ‘thinking’ might lead to hurt,
then we can slip in to modify them, if only a little…
like an improvising actor or muscician we can slip in another
contribution to a conversation that’ll just take it in another
direction.
Comment by Caroline Too — March 21, 2009 @ 10:44 am
i think it was Johnny Depp
2004 who said in 2004, in a newspaper interview:
“One of the most important gifts we have is imagination. It makes up 95%of our minds and is our greatest assett, our best friend and in some cases our worst enemy”
Interesting reading, all…I don’t think it is absolutely necessary to have a diagnosis of any kind to relate to this cartoon. I think we are all, at times, able to let our thoughts run away with us. I know someone who really winds me up. I have tried to make myself open to friendship with this person but it hasn’t been reciprocated. No problem, if that was that. But this person knows how to wind me up. Normally I am asleep withing seconds of my head touching the pillow but I have lain awake at night in huge mental turmoil over the many things that have been done, slyly, to hinder me in things I have been trying to do. I have never wished physical harm on this person but I have often wanted to forcibly eject them from my world…their very presence offending my sensibilities. My thoughts were doing a great deal of harm to me. This verse about taking every thought captive seemed to mock me. Trying to put my thoughts into any kind of perspective was a bit like trying to fit a king size duvet into a weekend bag. After a long time I think I have things sorted, largely by my making a concerted effort to avoid my nemesis.
In my personal experience, time alone in quiet reflection can be great for sorting thoughts out…too much time alone with your thoughts can distort reality.
Reminds me of the ad for probiotic yoghurty things for ‘good bacteria’ in the gut…the thoughts look like those lumpy finger-like things along the digestive tract.
yes, it’s an odd picture this one… i think in my head the thoughts lurk behind the big bouldery shapes. but make of it what you will… probiotic yoghurt, alien facehuggers all work for me.
i was always more of a ‘queen’ boy, dennis.
i am now off to the garden centre with clare to find a little magnolia tree. very exciting! i love magnolia… oh yes!
Hey be very careful with your magnolia tree they if there small they don’t like frost!! And be careful if you re-pot it they get stressed very easy. Actually I just thought I hope Im not trina teach my grandma to suck eggs, if I am then ignore me.
my wife is one of those green fingered people, dennis. we found a ’snow queen’ birch tree we love, a ’stellata’ magnolia we love and a prunus incisa kojo-no-mai, which is a beautiful white flowering shrub… she seems to know what to do with all of them… it seems to consist of digging holes and sticking them in.
Hey Jon, I was a huge Queen fan in my teens. Loved the first 6 albums, chose my O level options on the basis of what I’d read about the band in magazines (who said rock stars were a bad influence on the young?), saw them at the cosy Liverpool Empire during Freddie’s ballet leotard phase, felt hugely betrayed when they went on to play aircraft hangars and stopped declaring the lack of synthesizers on the album sleeves! Though I always maintained a huge respect for them thereafter.
Ah! Magnolia! Saw some early-ish flowering magnolia at Ness Gardens yesterday – always feel sentimental about that. It was always the scented shrub that my dad recommended when asked about such things. He used to sing a song called, ‘Is it true what they say about Dixie?’ which had a line about sweet magnolia blossoming around everybody’s door. Like Clare, my eldest sister has a gift for growing things…inherited from my dad. I don’t have to do anything to kill plants…maybe that’s where I go wrong, by doing nothing…hmmm.
Caroline Too at #25:
that thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual
Actually, us ’so called serious psychologists’ have done plenty of research into cognition
Caroline Too @25
Actually, us “so-called serious psychologists” do not support the idea that “thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual” AT ALL! On the basis of a lot of research, much of cognitive behavioural therapy is focused on helping people to identify that they ARE NOT their thoughts, that thoughts occur involuntarily, and that we do not have give our thoughts creedence but can simply notice and acknowledge them – this is particularly important for people with anxiety difficulties such as OCD, where intrusive thoughts are misinterpreted as being significant and meaningful to the individual whereas in fact they are not – we all have strange intrusive thoughts, and we all have anxious thoughts. It’s how we respond to them that makes the difference. Techniques such as mindfulness are particularly helpful.
a man… or a welshdisastergirl
Comment by Welshdisastergirl — March 20, 2009 @ 12:36 am
Looks like he’s in the mouth of a shark.
But the sentiment is good… just very hard to detach from the tiny man and/or giant shark.
Comment by herbeey — March 20, 2009 @ 12:41 am
Or the belly of the whale … having a Ninevah moment.
Comment by beckyG — March 20, 2009 @ 1:46 am
He looks to me like an Eliphaz.
‘Can mortal man be in the right before God? Can a man be pure before his Maker?’
Comment by ED... — March 20, 2009 @ 2:22 am
Bless you Jon if this about you.
‘he leads me by still waters and into green pastures’ or ‘i will never leave you nor forsake you’ or ‘i have loved you with an everlasting love’ ? Might be a way to combat the nasty thoughts?
I was taught to write them out on bits of card and i know its very simplistic and I don’t want to ‘bible bash’ but sometimes i need something tangible in my hand to remind me, and help me to conquer the fear my own thoughts bring.
Comment by Kim — March 20, 2009 @ 8:07 am
As I looked at it the words ‘even through I walk through a valley as dark as death, you are with me’ came to mind along with the end of the Jewish ghetto prayer ‘I believe in God, though God be silent’
If the man is you, may you find the way out of the dark place. If someone else may they.
Comment by Catriona — March 20, 2009 @ 8:37 am
So your thoughts are grey hillock shaped things – how odd!
Comment by Miriworm — March 20, 2009 @ 9:00 am
yep, me too. absolutely crushing. think thats why i’ve got so much out of morning bell – it’s not all bright notes
http://www.ianadams.info/Site/morning_bell.html
Comment by subo — March 20, 2009 @ 9:06 am
Dont we have to take our thoughts captive?
Comment by beatthedrum — March 20, 2009 @ 9:49 am
Oh yeah – this is me.
Comment by Karita — March 20, 2009 @ 10:17 am
yes we do beatthedrum… but just you try doing it while experiencing fight or flight and having thoughts rushing at nine million miles an hour. very, very hard indeed.
Comment by jonbirch — March 20, 2009 @ 10:21 am
Powerful cartoon, Jon. And aren’t your thoughts just like that when you have an anxiety disorder – huge looming dark forms just circling in on you?
The ‘take your thoughts captive’ verse is an interesting one. I don’t think it means control your thoughts, (because this is impossible), so I think it must mean give them the importance they deserve, which is usually very little when you are threat sensitive or have an anxiety disorder.
Comment by Hayles — March 20, 2009 @ 10:57 am
Jon it was more a question than an ‘attack’.
The question is of course ‘How do we take our thoughts captive?’
I had this problem, as i have suffered from clinical depression in the past, and its one that at times i still suffer from.
Reading book by David Holden called “Battle for the mind” helped me, and lots of time with Jesus of course.
Not there yet but the thoughts are less often and not so LOUD!
Comment by beatthedrum — March 20, 2009 @ 11:42 am
sorry beatthedrum… i didn’t think for a moment it was an attack… i didn’t mean to sound at all defensive either, merely to fill in the picture a bit more, which your question gave me the opportunity to do. please accept a humble smiley.
Comment by jonbirch — March 20, 2009 @ 11:55 am
Lol its hard to tell on here sometimes Jon, but i know from past discussions your not that agressive, at least not to me
Comment by beatthedrum — March 20, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
An elderly monastic I know said a few wise words about thoughts.
You can’t help having them.
You don’t have to agree with them.
You don’t have to dwell on them and let them shape you.
An example, having a racist thought doesn’t make you a bad person in itself. It is possible to respond to it be thinking “Hang on, I don’t agree with that”.
It is of course possible to dwell upon that thought and steep yourself in it and become shaped by it and become a racist. That is a problem.
Comment by Robb — March 20, 2009 @ 1:26 pm
Robb (16) that is very wise.
There is nothing but thoughts.
Better that our thoughts are a product of us, than that we are a product of them.
Comment by JF — March 20, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Haw succinctly put JF!
Comment by Robb — March 20, 2009 @ 3:33 pm
Did I miss a fight or something?
Watch out for those thoughts!! those sneaky things jump out when you least expect them too and tear you apart.
I think of the lyrics of a marillion song that sort of give me comfort and fear both at the same time, “just leave me alone with my thoughts…”
Comment by dennis — March 20, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
dennis… i never would have believed that ‘marillion’ would crop on this blog.
are we talking ‘pre’ or ‘post’ fish. 
Comment by jonbirch — March 20, 2009 @ 6:43 pm
I found myself still pondering about this all when I had a walk outside in the sun this avo. Meanwhile this song was playing on my mp3player and thought I’d share..
“Set Me Free”
It hasn’t always been this way
I remember brighter days
Before the dark ones came
Stole my mind
Wrapped my soul in chains
Now I live among the dead
Fighting voices in my head
Hoping someone hears me crying in the night
And carries me away
Set me free of the chains
holding me
Is anybody out there
hearing me?
Set me free
Morning breaks another day
Finds me crying in the rain
All alone with my demons I am
Who is this man that comes my way?
The dark ones shriek
They scream His name
Is this the One they say will set the captives free?
Jesus, rescue me!!
As the God man passes by
He looks straight through my eyes
and darkness cannot hide
“Do you want to be free?
Lift your chains,
I hold the key.
All power on Heav’n and Earth belong to ME.
You are free!
You are free!
You are free!”
It’s probably all not too hard-core ASBO, and for some perhaps even simply “too easy”, but filling our minds with His words (reading the Bible) and/or words about Him (tapes, books and of course music) often takes the focus off of ourselves so that we can see Him more clearly..
The most precious thing I still remember and hold close from my dad when he passed away is 11 years ago was: “just try to stay close to Jesus, keep your eyes on Him..”
Can still hear him say those words to me..
And doing that surely helped me thru so many situations and circumstances. Actually turned out to be the only thing that calmed me down..it brought and brings peace to my often so troubled soul and my ever worrying spirit quiets down. It honestly helps me to get my thoughts a bit more into perspective..
Comment by HisGal — March 20, 2009 @ 6:55 pm
love the image
loving the comments too
Comment by gilly — March 21, 2009 @ 12:36 am
most definitely fish days! He was my one and only role model which probably explains why I am such a mess (ha) the words were from blind curve i think. I didn’t think anyone would know who they were I was going to explain but i forgot. Does that mean you are a marillion fan too?
Comment by dennis — March 21, 2009 @ 7:14 am
I was once accused of thinking!
but they couldn’t find enough evidence to convict me, so I got off!
Comment by Caroline Too — March 21, 2009 @ 10:33 am
the trouble with thoughts is that we think that they precede action
that’s very optimistic!
that they, in some way, define an individual,
that’s a very western way of ‘thinking’ about people, and
very damaging
that thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual
we’re now descending to folly. popular folly, folly supported by pop-psychology and by so-called-serious psychology,
but folly nonetheless
but what if thoughts are just a type of action? and are created
socially in the conversations we’re part of
and those conversations that hang around our story telling memories,
affecting the conversations that we have ’symbolically’ with
others, when on our own…
are we, as individuals, guilty (or praiseworthy) for thoughts that
are owned and created by our social circle?
I think not
but where ‘our’ thoughts are potentially damaging, where our
social ‘thinking’ might lead to hurt,
then we can slip in to modify them, if only a little…
like an improvising actor or muscician we can slip in another
contribution to a conversation that’ll just take it in another
direction.
Comment by Caroline Too — March 21, 2009 @ 10:44 am
i think it was Johnny Depp
2004 who said in 2004, in a newspaper interview:
“One of the most important gifts we have is imagination. It makes up 95%of our minds and is our greatest assett, our best friend and in some cases our worst enemy”
Comment by gilly — March 21, 2009 @ 11:12 am
Interesting reading, all…I don’t think it is absolutely necessary to have a diagnosis of any kind to relate to this cartoon. I think we are all, at times, able to let our thoughts run away with us. I know someone who really winds me up. I have tried to make myself open to friendship with this person but it hasn’t been reciprocated. No problem, if that was that. But this person knows how to wind me up. Normally I am asleep withing seconds of my head touching the pillow but I have lain awake at night in huge mental turmoil over the many things that have been done, slyly, to hinder me in things I have been trying to do. I have never wished physical harm on this person but I have often wanted to forcibly eject them from my world…their very presence offending my sensibilities. My thoughts were doing a great deal of harm to me. This verse about taking every thought captive seemed to mock me. Trying to put my thoughts into any kind of perspective was a bit like trying to fit a king size duvet into a weekend bag. After a long time I think I have things sorted, largely by my making a concerted effort to avoid my nemesis.
In my personal experience, time alone in quiet reflection can be great for sorting thoughts out…too much time alone with your thoughts can distort reality.
Comment by Carole — March 21, 2009 @ 12:20 pm
The pic reminds me of Aliens quadrology, with the facehuggers hatching from the eggs.
Got the same shape, though much biggere here.
Comment by Bo — March 21, 2009 @ 2:01 pm
Reminds me of the ad for probiotic yoghurty things for ‘good bacteria’ in the gut…the thoughts look like those lumpy finger-like things along the digestive tract.
Comment by Carole — March 21, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
yes, it’s an odd picture this one… i think in my head the thoughts lurk behind the big bouldery shapes. but make of it what you will… probiotic yoghurt, alien facehuggers all work for me.
i was always more of a ‘queen’ boy, dennis.
i am now off to the garden centre with clare to find a little magnolia tree. very exciting! i love magnolia… oh yes!
Comment by jonbirch — March 21, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
I would never have guessed that! Queen.
Hey be very careful with your magnolia tree they if there small they don’t like frost!! And be careful if you re-pot it they get stressed very easy. Actually I just thought I hope Im not trina teach my grandma to suck eggs, if I am then ignore me.
Comment by dennis — March 21, 2009 @ 4:26 pm
my wife is one of those green fingered people, dennis. we found a ’snow queen’ birch tree we love, a ’stellata’ magnolia we love and a prunus incisa kojo-no-mai, which is a beautiful white flowering shrub… she seems to know what to do with all of them… it seems to consist of digging holes and sticking them in.
Comment by jonbirch — March 21, 2009 @ 7:04 pm
Hey Jon, I was a huge Queen fan in my teens. Loved the first 6 albums, chose my O level options on the basis of what I’d read about the band in magazines (who said rock stars were a bad influence on the young?), saw them at the cosy Liverpool Empire during Freddie’s ballet leotard phase, felt hugely betrayed when they went on to play aircraft hangars and stopped declaring the lack of synthesizers on the album sleeves! Though I always maintained a huge respect for them thereafter.
Ah! Magnolia! Saw some early-ish flowering magnolia at Ness Gardens yesterday – always feel sentimental about that. It was always the scented shrub that my dad recommended when asked about such things. He used to sing a song called, ‘Is it true what they say about Dixie?’ which had a line about sweet magnolia blossoming around everybody’s door. Like Clare, my eldest sister has a gift for growing things…inherited from my dad. I don’t have to do anything to kill plants…maybe that’s where I go wrong, by doing nothing…hmmm.
Comment by Carole — March 22, 2009 @ 11:18 am
Hey Carole – I used to love going to Ness Gardens when I lived in that part of the world many years ago
Comment by Pat — March 23, 2009 @ 8:30 am
Caroline Too at #25:
that thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual
Actually, us ’so called serious psychologists’ have done plenty of research into cognition
Comment by doctor ruth — March 23, 2009 @ 11:51 am
Caroline Too @25
Actually, us “so-called serious psychologists” do not support the idea that “thoughts, attitudes etc were all owned by and created by the
individual” AT ALL! On the basis of a lot of research, much of cognitive behavioural therapy is focused on helping people to identify that they ARE NOT their thoughts, that thoughts occur involuntarily, and that we do not have give our thoughts creedence but can simply notice and acknowledge them – this is particularly important for people with anxiety difficulties such as OCD, where intrusive thoughts are misinterpreted as being significant and meaningful to the individual whereas in fact they are not – we all have strange intrusive thoughts, and we all have anxious thoughts. It’s how we respond to them that makes the difference. Techniques such as mindfulness are particularly helpful.
Rant over.
Comment by doctor ruth — March 23, 2009 @ 11:55 am
oops, don’t know what happened there, looks like it somehow got submitted when I was half way through writing!
Comment by doctor ruth — March 23, 2009 @ 11:56 am
So, Pat, you’ve lived in these here parts? Ness is my favourite Sunday afternoon, blow away the cobwebs before the new week begins outing. Love it!
Comment by Carole — March 23, 2009 @ 6:11 pm
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