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i wonder how many of those sharks in the water are “good bible believing christians.”
And how many or liberals wanting to take you off in a different un-biblical direction saying there is no hell and we will all be saved.
Sorry could not help myself
I agree with Thomas, but maybe the preceived sharks are in fact dolphins.
Also you have left of the Bat-Shark repellent, sorry armour of God.
http://www.beatthedrum.wordpress.com
hell isn’t the final destination for anyone biblically, btd… and who knows? maybe everyone’ll be saved… there’s nothing to preclude it in scripture is there? we simply don’t know.
There is nothing unbiblical about believing everyone will be saved. Have you got your shark outfit on today btd?
actually, it isn’t a ‘repellent’ it’s an ‘overcomer’ but no, I don’t think that it’s left off, but rather it’s something that we get to see the more we swim with sharks (and dolphins)
Your work says so much with so few lines and colors that another person could fill up a blog with rambling posts that would never say as much or be as challenging. This is a great one Jon and yet another one that I’m putting in my “ideas for posts” file.
thank you, anita.
Jon and Hayles: I, like you, feel that it’s more than likely that everyone will be saved in the end – could you give me a hand with the biblical angle? (if it’s not too much of a tangent – which perhaps it is…)
Hello Sophie! It is a bit of a tangent, but I think Jon secretly loves ‘em.
The biblical basis for the belief that all are saved is pretty much that the bible repeatedly refers to God’s limitless love and mercy, and that if God Himself desires that all be saved, than there is no reason to believe that this will not be the final outcome.
There are also many essays written on the mistranslation of a Greek word which means ‘age’ into the word ‘eternity’ (or something along those lines). Generally people that believe in universal salvation or reconciliation still do believe in a hell of some sort, but they believe that eventually everyone will turn to God because he will never give up on them. (Luke 3:5-6 talks about all mankind seeing God’s salvation.)
I found this a very useful website to help with more scholarly viewpoints on universal salvation, particularly its biblical basis and the history of the hell doctrine, but like all websites it probably has its better and worse essays!
http://www.tentmaker.org/
If you were interested in reading a book, ‘Universal Salvation?: The Current Debate’ (Robin Parry and Chris Partridge) is a really useful one, because it outlines the debate clearly and is not trying to come to a conclusion. It features essays and arguments from both sides, hopefully allowing you to make up your own mind (or leaving you more confused than ever! Just another day in the life of a Christian
).
I talked this issue through with some christian friends recently. We came to the conclusion that even though between us we were still not in agreement about the idea of everyone being saved, we did agree that the opportunity to turn to God will never be taken away from one of His children. It will never be ‘too late’ – the prodigal son can always choose to come home.
Happy truth seeking!
xxxx
The sharks could represent any of our fears about following him – mine are different at different times. Currently fear of not being able to do it very well and looking like a muppet if I stick my neck out
Sophie, after going and sitting down to the watch the telly (The Apprentice, wahoo!), I felt compelled to come back and write another post just saying look after yourself whilst researching on the net. The web link I put for instance, although I found a couple of the essays helpful, I also remember finding a few of them not helpful!
Just look after yourself when trawling the net, there’s a lot of stuff out there, some good, some bad. It’s always wise to have friends/family/asbo jesus bloggers to dicuss your thoughts and findings with!
God bless and guide you,
love Hayles
xxxx
is it bad that I immediately interpreted the sharks to be people??????
What about the water never mind the sharks!
I thought with his help Christians could walk on water!
About ‘universal salvation’ and so: maybe God won’t force anyone to enter heaven and maybe the choices that will be made then will be logical continuation of the choices that are made now. I think this is also what C.S. Lewis says in ‘The weight of glory’ and in ‘The great divorce’
About the cartoon: at once I can understand Peter looking at the waves a bit more again.
(And by the way Jon, I kind of introduced myself on the ‘about’ page.)
hi teus… thanks for saying hello and thanks for the kind comment.
I really can’t help saying this. Has everyone missed what beatthedrum said?
Please go back to what he actually said. His point was missed in such a spectacular manner.
And how many are liberals wanting to take you off in a different un-biblical direction saying there is no hell and we will all be saved.
Read 1 and then read 2.
Please.
It’s funny!!
Really funny!!!
BTD – well done!
what have i missed?
Spell it out? Quick translation?
1 – Sharks in the water are “bible believing christians”
2 – Don’t you mean that the sharks in the water are “bleeding heart liberals”
What is really amusing is that people missed it and then had a go about the second statement – which was a joke.
OR – I’ve missread it completely and it wasn’t a joke…. niut I doubt it
aaaaaaaaaaaaah….
btw… i have that old batman movie on dvd… it’s great.
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Why do I have to be the one to walk to Jesus – after all, he’s God – can’t he walk on water and come get me?
:-)
he did that already
Robb your right I was joking! And I enjoyed the comments
However I also believe that not all will be saved and those who are not will go to the perpetual agony of ‘hell’
There is a choice to be made.
http://www.beatthedrum.wordpress.com
Is there slight irony that we’re focussing so much on the sharks and not really addressing the ‘walking on water’ predicament???
good point amy… gavin mentioned it above too.
beatthedrum… where do you get that idea from?
great cartoon-so many times i’ve almost thrown myself in but pulled out at the last minute because i was scared!
with reference to the slight tangent-i don’t like the idea of hell, but do we not underestimate the damage that sin inflicts, the way it totally wrecks our relationship with God if in fact it bears no consequence by saying in the end all are saved? I’m not judging anyone, just trying to work it out!
Grace and peace siblings…
bears or bares? hmmmm…lifes questions!!!!
Hi Hayles,
only just got back to see your kind responses to my question! Thanks so much. I’ll give those a go. And I’ll take care while I’m at it.
Sophie x
Jon… the bible
different bible to mine then beatthedrum. it’s not in mine… looked everywhere.
You havent got on of those liberal versions do you Jon?
You know the ‘There is no hell and all will be saved’ liberal pamphlets
nope, regular bible, all versions. i didn’t say everyone would be saved according to the bible, i said we don’t know. i also didn’t say the bible doesn’t mention hell, but that it is not the ultimate destination for any human being. show me where it says otherwise.
lol ok Jon give me sometiome and i will but MY argument forward.
but… beatthedrum… you were so sure… how could you be so sure and not call to mind a single passage immediately… i’m shocked!
lol i am sure I just want to make sure i quote correctly thats all and as i am also working “Just diving on and off every once in a while” I dont have my bible to hand
I thought Beat the Drum’s thumbnail was meant to represent hell.
Lol no its the Fire falling at Pentecost….
I leave the judging who goes to heaven/hell up to God – my job is to “try and follow Christ” – and often that’s more than that I can do on my one, which is why I need a savior. Now the Q is how the heck will I get to him given the situation Jon’s presented before me. What keeps me from trusting that if I step on the water he’ll save me just like he did Peter on the sea of Galilee?
NOW we’re getting somewhere Becky G.! Thank you so much for your comment @ 43..
It all comes down to the big t-word again, isn’t it?
..AND ofcourse the big f-word..errr..FEAR I mean
..
It’s the same old story all over again: HE (our SAVIOUR) says: “FOLLOW ME”..would HE not provide the necessary safety? That’s TRUSTING He KNOWS what He’s asking and WHO He’s asking..He KNOWS our FEARS and He’ll make a way the moment we let go and take the step of FAITH..
BTW: didn’t He do something quite extraordinary with lions in a den somewhere in the past?
He’s still that same El Shaddai..that’s at least what I choose to believe..
its interesting what Jesus says to Peter later on also after Jesus was resurrected.
paraphrased John 21
Jesus:You’re going to die
Peter:What about John?
Jesus:Does it matter whether he lives or dies for me?
Jesus: Follow me!
Hey, I know that situation.
I have chosen to follow Christ through a very dangerous situation, and he’s been keeping me safe so far.
Only half way through, though…
Is it just me eagerly awaiting btd’s response to Jon?!
xxxx
Nope Hayles, I’m here waiting with you!
X
Me too, Hayles and HisGal.
Shall we start a slow clap that builds to a frenzy?
Gheghe..sounds like a plan to me…here we go: clap, clap, clap…………
beckyg… i agree re. god making the decisions. it’s just i don’t believe the bible tells us that hell is the ulimate destination for anyone. it’s not in the bible and i think it’s shonky theology. but your point about making judgments i couldn’t agree with more.
That’s why I leave the judging up to God – my focus is on how we are to live as Christians here on earth. That’s more than I can handle without trying to figure who is rapture ready and who is going to h-e-double toothpicks.
hmmm i guess you are not reformed john!
or maybe you tore out the bits in the bible where Jesus talks about Gehenna numerous times? e.g. it would be better to pluck out your eye than to lose everything in hell, the worm that never dies, the weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Or the bit about how the wickeds torment will burn forever in Daniel?
or the bits about how all will be judged at the end, and that there will be a lake of fire at the end of the day?
hi chaino… wiki puts it better than me…
“Gehenna” is the Christian rendering of “Ge Hinnom,” literally “Valley of Hinnom,” known in Hebrew as Gai Ben-Hinnom, literally the “Valley of Hinnom’s son.” In the Qur’an, gehenna (Gehennem, Jahannam) is a place of torment for sinners or the Islamic equivalent of hell.
In the Hebrew Bible, Gai Ben-Hinnom does not refer to hell but rather to a real valley in Jerusalem (Joshua 15:8, Joshua 18:16, 2nd Kings 23:10, 2 Chronicles 28:3, 2nd Chronicles 33:6,Nehemiah 11:30, Jeremiah 7:31~32, Jeremiah 19:2, Jeremiah 19:6, Jeremiah 32:35). Garbage from the walled city was burned there.
hell as a place where people go to live out an eternity is not a biblical concept.
Short of time still fokes but I will get it posted up on a couple of days or so sorry for the delay
@56:..sigh..whaha! No just kidding..no worries..take your time..we’ll TRY to be patient some more..
Have a good day and take care!
Lin
(do look forward to your point of view..normally we’re spot on on the same page about “stuff”..which is a real blessing..)
Ok
Chaps and Chapettes I have posted my thoughts on this onto my blog as its too long-winded for a comment. Please leave comments, sarcasm, rebuttles etc on the site.
http://beatthedrum.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/final-judgement-and-hell-for-my-friends-over-on-asbojesus/
Thanks for taking the time btd! What makes you think any of us would ever be sarcastic?
xxxx
I dont know Hayles… just a feeling