creative word of faith ? Be careful ! Much pain lies down that road. How about “I am going to be healed” or “I am going to have that Ferrari”. Do we really *create* things with our words ?
For many the reality of “I am so hopeful” is that 5 minutes later they “feel so bleak”. Are they failed creators ? Do they lack faith ?
This is the wickedness that lies behind “the secret” and the word of faith crew.
We are not God and we do not create with our words.
I’ve finally come to a place of hearing others stories about me, as their stories
though the family narrative and then the church yarn’s have taken their toll, so
have to say, be careful what you say about people, a quick joke at someone else’s expense can
cause real pain
I also know what you mean Mark, about false positive statements, the answer for me, is to
look for things I can really admire about people, and tell them, then it’s true
I also think genuine listening skills offers a powerful way of hearing others, by listening
we can hear concerns and mention them, just the knowledge someone wants to understand
is liberating
for me, Dr Ruth, thats one of the special about CBT, in that to work effectively, a CBT therapist
has to listen accurately, and is also asking the client to listen to their own thoughts attentively enough to discern their validity
mark… the word of faith crew sound like a right pain in the proverbial.
i am with pat, dr ruth and subo though on the power of language and the words we use and things we tell ourselves. name it and claim it is as dodgy as hell, but we certainly have the power to build up or destroy with the words we use. words are tremendously powerful things, one of the most powerful tools at our disposal.
Jon, you’re turning into Louise Hay! Positive affirmations only work at the most superficial level – for anything deeper you need a few large gin and tonics.
jon – I think our words are most powerful when we speak words of truth. So, when we say “I am hopeful” and there really is hope, then the focussing on the true and the lovely is where the power lies.
If we say “I am hopeful” but have no hope, then the words themselves are not capable of creating the hope.
Thing is, you can do this to yourself too, without any outside input at all.
Don’t ask me how I know that
__________________________
As an aside, this is strong in my head right now –
Today’s art quote from a gadget on one of my blogs:
Light is the first consideration of painters. There is no object so foul that intense light will not make it beautiful. Ralph Waldo Emerson
Is there this parallel to that: “there is no person so foul that the intense light of Christ will not make them beautiful.”
It’s not by accident that Jesus is called the “word made flesh”. God is a receptor oriented communicator. Jesus is how God answers questions like: “What is holiness, what is love, what is grace, what is glory, what is God like?”
God doesn’t just create with words, of course, he destroys too, as in Mark 11:21. He had the right, at that time of year, to expect some fruit from that tree, but saw nothing but leaves. This is also a communication of God’s character.
thanks for this – am in Lyon where pepople from all over Europe will gather this week “called to one hope in Christ” so this was a timely thought Will repost is later in the week here: http://cec-assembly.blogspot.com
Well, no, Tiggy. In fact, I couldn’t have said what I meant without the adjectival phrase “receptor-oriented”, so it isn’t an *unnecessary* mouthful.
It’s like with evangelism:
the hardest work an evangelist does is to adjust his mindset from transmission-oriented communication to listener-receivable speech.
Technical manuals are written for the consumption of the cognoscenti, and an expert talks differently to other experts than he does when he is speaking to a beginner.
If he does not adjust his speech, then the inexperienced listener soon gets bored, angry, and frustrated, and not only receives little, but becomes antipathetic to the subject.
This is often precisely how (as the cartoon says) “with my words I can bring positive things into being, or kill them stone dead”.
My point about God doing this, is that in Jesus we have the ultimate example of the medium becoming the message.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Jon – I agree theologically, emotionally and neurobiologically
Comment by Pat — July 10, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
er….but I don’t like these new smileys
Comment by Pat — July 10, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
That’s the power of cognitive therapy!
Comment by doctor ruth — July 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm
creative word of faith ? Be careful ! Much pain lies down that road. How about “I am going to be healed” or “I am going to have that Ferrari”. Do we really *create* things with our words ?
For many the reality of “I am so hopeful” is that 5 minutes later they “feel so bleak”. Are they failed creators ? Do they lack faith ?
This is the wickedness that lies behind “the secret” and the word of faith crew.
We are not God and we do not create with our words.
Comment by mark — July 10, 2009 @ 3:33 pm
I’ve finally come to a place of hearing others stories about me, as their stories
though the family narrative and then the church yarn’s have taken their toll, so
have to say, be careful what you say about people, a quick joke at someone else’s expense can
cause real pain
I also know what you mean Mark, about false positive statements, the answer for me, is to
look for things I can really admire about people, and tell them, then it’s true
I also think genuine listening skills offers a powerful way of hearing others, by listening
we can hear concerns and mention them, just the knowledge someone wants to understand
is liberating
for me, Dr Ruth, thats one of the special about CBT, in that to work effectively, a CBT therapist
has to listen accurately, and is also asking the client to listen to their own thoughts attentively enough to discern their validity
Comment by subo — July 10, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
mark… the word of faith crew sound like a right pain in the proverbial.
i am with pat, dr ruth and subo though on the power of language and the words we use and things we tell ourselves. name it and claim it is as dodgy as hell, but we certainly have the power to build up or destroy with the words we use. words are tremendously powerful things, one of the most powerful tools at our disposal.
Comment by jonbirch — July 10, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
Jon, you’re turning into Louise Hay! Positive affirmations only work at the most superficial level – for anything deeper you need a few large gin and tonics.
Comment by Tiggy — July 10, 2009 @ 7:46 pm
jon – I think our words are most powerful when we speak words of truth. So, when we say “I am hopeful” and there really is hope, then the focussing on the true and the lovely is where the power lies.
If we say “I am hopeful” but have no hope, then the words themselves are not capable of creating the hope.
Comment by mark — July 10, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
Sometimes it’s better not to hope.
Comment by Tiggy — July 10, 2009 @ 8:36 pm
Thing is, you can do this to yourself too, without any outside input at all.
Don’t ask me how I know that
__________________________
As an aside, this is strong in my head right now –
Today’s art quote from a gadget on one of my blogs:
Light is the first consideration of painters. There is no object so foul that intense light will not make it beautiful. Ralph Waldo Emerson
Is there this parallel to that: “there is no person so foul that the intense light of Christ will not make them beautiful.”
Comment by Forrest — July 10, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
‘Thing is, you can do this to yourself too, without any outside input at all.’
That’s what they said in Ann Summers!
I wonder if Ralph Waldo had seen dog poo bathed in intense light.
I hate that smug bitch on the right. She’ll learn. And you know the worst thing? I’ve run out of tonic water.
Comment by Tiggy — July 10, 2009 @ 10:40 pm
I wasn’t thinking the negativity of “claim your miracle and place your hand on the screen” but the gift of encouragement!
Comment by Robb — July 10, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
Tiggy – ” And you know the worst thing? I’ve run out of tonic water.”
I haven’t had a decent gin since I left theological college.
Must go and buy some!
Comment by Robb — July 10, 2009 @ 11:46 pm
Ooh, now I’ve led you into gin.
Good job Jesus paid for our gins on the cross!
Comment by Tiggy — July 10, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
oh so TRUE..thanks for reminding/confirming us Jon!
Comment by HisGal — July 11, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
I feel like the sad person on the left.
Comment by Ros — July 11, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
Sad = happy?
Comment by Tiggy — July 11, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
Sometimes the world just crashes for no explicable reason.
Jon, message on MySpace.
Comment by Tiggy — July 11, 2009 @ 9:17 pm
Yes, God does this.
God creates what He commands.
It’s not by accident that Jesus is called the “word made flesh”. God is a receptor oriented communicator. Jesus is how God answers questions like: “What is holiness, what is love, what is grace, what is glory, what is God like?”
God doesn’t just create with words, of course, he destroys too, as in Mark 11:21. He had the right, at that time of year, to expect some fruit from that tree, but saw nothing but leaves. This is also a communication of God’s character.
Comment by ED... (who blogs at Sincere Ignorance and Conscientious Stupidity) — July 12, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
thanks for this – am in Lyon where pepople from all over Europe will gather this week “called to one hope in Christ” so this was a timely thought Will repost is later in the week here:
http://cec-assembly.blogspot.com
Comment by Jane — July 12, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
We weren’t talking about God doing it, Ed, we were talking about whether people could do it.
‘God is a receptor oriented communicator. ‘
Rather a tautology!
Comment by Tiggy — July 12, 2009 @ 8:18 pm
Positive words and five minutes later the formerly despairing person becomes a woman??!
Is it just me that saw that in this cartoon? Hmm…what does that say about me?
Comment by Graham — July 13, 2009 @ 8:39 am
Hi Tiggy,
I was talking about God doing it, even if you weren’t.
And it’s not a tautology!
ED.
Comment by ED... — July 13, 2009 @ 11:23 am
Well it’s certainly an unnecessary mouthful (AASB).
Communication presupposes an orientation toward a receiver. Otherwise it’s not communication.
I just imagined him wanting to slap her.
Comment by Tiggy — July 13, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
Well, no, Tiggy. In fact, I couldn’t have said what I meant without the adjectival phrase “receptor-oriented”, so it isn’t an *unnecessary* mouthful.
It’s like with evangelism:
the hardest work an evangelist does is to adjust his mindset from transmission-oriented communication to listener-receivable speech.
Technical manuals are written for the consumption of the cognoscenti, and an expert talks differently to other experts than he does when he is speaking to a beginner.
If he does not adjust his speech, then the inexperienced listener soon gets bored, angry, and frustrated, and not only receives little, but becomes antipathetic to the subject.
This is often precisely how (as the cartoon says) “with my words I can bring positive things into being, or kill them stone dead”.
My point about God doing this, is that in Jesus we have the ultimate example of the medium becoming the message.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Comment by ED... (who blogs at Sincere Ignorance and Conscientious Stupidity) — July 13, 2009 @ 11:36 pm
My point is, that it isn’t actually communication at all unless it takes into account the receiver.
Comment by Tiggy — July 13, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
[...] So, I’ve been thinking a bit recently about this – first the comment and then the cartoon. (thanks ASBO Jesus. You [...]
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