Haha great! I loved Purpose Driven at the time. Surprisingly enough it provided me with Purpose and Drive. However, Spiralis is spot on, I wasn’t enjoying the ride or the Fella who created the ride and thus I now resent the Purpose and my Drive is waning.
As with all things you have to adapt them to your own context and situation. I use purpose driven material a lot, but I do not do so in isolation, I temper it and adapt it using a lot of Eugene Peterson’s writings.
Comment by rockingrev — November 10, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
if Boris is correct, the Christians came up with ’suicide bombers’ when the church was so oppressed in Spain. the difference was, they we rejecting state control, by suicide, but not taking anyone else with them
they weren’t claiming to be met with triumph on the other side, just that life without freedom, was unendurable
maybe things have gone that far – church has become the oppressor?, and life as a church member is life without freedom? -as a good church person you should get on the purpose driven road, and go out with a bang!
anyhow, anyone know how to reclaim that freedom once you’ve forfeited it?, or how to transform your community into a fun loving, God worshipping, haven of freedom?
how to transform your community into a fun loving, God worshipping, haven of freedom? that is stil on the mission God gave the church and not inward looking?
Comment by beatthedrum — November 10, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
It’s that old chestnut, isn’t it?
Does following Jesus mean replicating what we read of him in the Bible, or does it mean being fully oneself, the way he was fully himself – which might mean mining the external meaning of the words for their spirit instead.
So I reckon, if you find your purpose outside yourself, good on you – you’ve chosen one path. If you find it inside yourself you’ve chosen the other. It’s a bit like Jon’s last cartoon (806).
Comment by Steve Lancaster — November 10, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
I suppose we all have drives with different purposes, that at bottom are the same drive. Some of our drives may be labelled neurotic because they’re not understood by society. Others, such as the drive of a workaholic, are more accepted.
I suppose I’ve always been driven to find where I belong or who I belong with and more specifically, from a young age, to find a father. I see it as a drive to heal myself. I also have a drive to improve on things and to create and to find beauty. Those are all purposes I’m driven to or by.
The Enneagram divides people into 9 basic types depending on their motivations, which themselves are compensatory or defence mechanisms, e.g. a 1 will be driven towards perfection, a 9 towards peace and harmony, an 8 towards control, depending on early experiences.
Some folk are what we call “driven” people and some aren’t, isn’t that so?”**
I think “driven people” probably tend to think “non-driven” people are living some kind of ineffectual, unproductive half-life, and on the other hand that non-driven people probably feel sorry for driven people that they’re missing lovely things that they don’t take time to see.
I own up – I’m the non driven. I’m so laid back I’m horizontal. So “purpose driven” isn’t me. But I guess it totally IS lots of people, or could be, and that’s why the book has been such a success. Which is fine.
** By the way there are only two types of people in the world – those who say there are only two types of people in the world and those who don’t.
haha! not heard the binary joke before. made me chuckle.
sometimes i’m driven and sometimes i’m horizontal.
i still can’t see how being driven by a purpose is in any way a good thing. surely if we have purpose, we should drive it forward, not it drive us. surely that just leads to burn out.
i don’t think jesus was driven by purpose. he decided on his purpose and was the driver.
You could say he was drawn TOWARDS a purpose. We tend to think these days of causes and not teleologically, but Jung saw people as being drawn towards wholeness, in contrast to Freud who only saw people as being driven by (often neurotic) impulses.
Jon – I think it depends on whether one sees (or thinks God sees)Jesus/people as objects or subjects. Objects are manipulated by things external to themselves; subjects take control of their own purposes and actions.
Oh dear, now I sound like a record stuck in a groove (for those of you old enough to remember that!)
anne droid, #17, the problem is that I AM driven, one of the key aspects of my Christian pilgrimage is to learn how not to be driven, to learn how to hear God’s well done and let that be enough for me…
But Caroline Too, can’t you see you’re driven to do that as well? You don’t have a long way to go at all – you’re there already, you just have to realise and believe it. The whole point is to NOT castigate yourself.
Caroline Too @ #24 I don’t know you so this is just a general thought not specific to you, and not meant to suggest that I know more about you than you do which would be ridiculous, but is being driven really a “problem”? I often wish I was more driven! (But only vaguely because real wishing would be too energetic for me, lol). Aren’t they just different ways of our brains being wired up? I think the world would be a lot worse off without the energy and productiveness of driven people.
I’m still laughing at the dog in 800. I think it’s because he’s going, ‘Ooh, ooh’ and it’s funny, a dog doing that. The fact that he’s talking didn’t seem odd at all for some reason! If I need cheering up, I only have to look at that picture.
I find to be solely purpose driven, you miss out on enjoying the ride, the many detours and exciting tangents!
Comment by Spiralis — November 10, 2009 @ 11:42 am
Hee hee hee.
Now don’t forget to advertise all the other purpose driven materials and resources you can buy!
Comment by brunettekoala — November 10, 2009 @ 12:08 pm
Haha great! I loved Purpose Driven at the time. Surprisingly enough it provided me with Purpose and Drive. However, Spiralis is spot on, I wasn’t enjoying the ride or the Fella who created the ride and thus I now resent the Purpose and my Drive is waning.
Comment by nathan the alien — November 10, 2009 @ 12:17 pm
As with all things you have to adapt them to your own context and situation. I use purpose driven material a lot, but I do not do so in isolation, I temper it and adapt it using a lot of Eugene Peterson’s writings.
Comment by rockingrev — November 10, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
Ah Jon….the story of my life! How did you know?
Comment by Pat — November 10, 2009 @ 12:39 pm
Ah so it was your purpose to be driven into a mountain side was it!
Comment by miriworm — November 10, 2009 @ 12:59 pm
miriworm… when you are purpose driven, you don’t drive it, it drives you
Comment by jonbirch — November 10, 2009 @ 1:02 pm
Ahhhhhh – the purpose driven bomb!!
Comment by Robb — November 10, 2009 @ 1:21 pm
if Boris is correct, the Christians came up with ’suicide bombers’ when the church was so oppressed in Spain. the difference was, they we rejecting state control, by suicide, but not taking anyone else with them
they weren’t claiming to be met with triumph on the other side, just that life without freedom, was unendurable
maybe things have gone that far – church has become the oppressor?, and life as a church member is life without freedom? -as a good church person you should get on the purpose driven road, and go out with a bang!
anyhow, anyone know how to reclaim that freedom once you’ve forfeited it?, or how to transform your community into a fun loving, God worshipping, haven of freedom?
Comment by subo — November 10, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
how to transform your community into a fun loving, God worshipping, haven of freedom? that is stil on the mission God gave the church and not inward looking?
Comment by beatthedrum — November 10, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
It’s that old chestnut, isn’t it?
Does following Jesus mean replicating what we read of him in the Bible, or does it mean being fully oneself, the way he was fully himself – which might mean mining the external meaning of the words for their spirit instead.
So I reckon, if you find your purpose outside yourself, good on you – you’ve chosen one path. If you find it inside yourself you’ve chosen the other. It’s a bit like Jon’s last cartoon (806).
Comment by Steve Lancaster — November 10, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
LOL! Spot on, spot on, spot on.
Comment by becky — November 10, 2009 @ 3:09 pm
I was going to make the rather snappy point that
if you’re going to be purpose driven, could you possibly avoid me
then I remembered my comments on the previous post, and I thought that my snappy point wasn’t so clever,
but I still don’t want to be driven thank you very much indeed
called, yes
but not driven
even if His yoke is light
oh damn, I do wish that I wouldn’t remember scripture at the wrong moment…
Comment by Caroline Too — November 10, 2009 @ 3:55 pm
“The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension”?
Comment by Forrest — November 10, 2009 @ 10:04 pm
I suppose we all have drives with different purposes, that at bottom are the same drive. Some of our drives may be labelled neurotic because they’re not understood by society. Others, such as the drive of a workaholic, are more accepted.
I suppose I’ve always been driven to find where I belong or who I belong with and more specifically, from a young age, to find a father. I see it as a drive to heal myself. I also have a drive to improve on things and to create and to find beauty. Those are all purposes I’m driven to or by.
The Enneagram divides people into 9 basic types depending on their motivations, which themselves are compensatory or defence mechanisms, e.g. a 1 will be driven towards perfection, a 9 towards peace and harmony, an 8 towards control, depending on early experiences.
Comment by Tiggy — November 10, 2009 @ 11:31 pm
Btw, Jon, why do I keep being sent things to subscribe to each of your cartoons as separate blogs. Can’t you do it all as one blog?
Comment by Tiggy — November 10, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
Some folk are what we call “driven” people and some aren’t, isn’t that so?”**
I think “driven people” probably tend to think “non-driven” people are living some kind of ineffectual, unproductive half-life, and on the other hand that non-driven people probably feel sorry for driven people that they’re missing lovely things that they don’t take time to see.
I own up – I’m the non driven. I’m so laid back I’m horizontal. So “purpose driven” isn’t me. But I guess it totally IS lots of people, or could be, and that’s why the book has been such a success. Which is fine.
** By the way there are only two types of people in the world – those who say there are only two types of people in the world and those who don’t.
Comment by AnneDroid — November 10, 2009 @ 11:36 pm
AnneDroid – it wasn’t so much the idea of being ‘purpose-driven’ that I objected to, but the actual content of such a concept as set out by RW
And I thought there were 10 types of people in the world – those that understand binary and those that don’t
Comment by Pat — November 11, 2009 @ 12:06 am
haha! not heard the binary joke before. made me chuckle.
sometimes i’m driven and sometimes i’m horizontal.
i still can’t see how being driven by a purpose is in any way a good thing. surely if we have purpose, we should drive it forward, not it drive us. surely that just leads to burn out.
i don’t think jesus was driven by purpose. he decided on his purpose and was the driver.
Comment by jonbirch — November 11, 2009 @ 12:25 am
You could say he was drawn TOWARDS a purpose. We tend to think these days of causes and not teleologically, but Jung saw people as being drawn towards wholeness, in contrast to Freud who only saw people as being driven by (often neurotic) impulses.
Comment by Tiggy — November 11, 2009 @ 12:30 am
yes, that certainly makes more sense to me, tiggy.
Comment by jonbirch — November 11, 2009 @ 12:37 am
I think the moral of the story ism If you’re going to be purpose driven…make sure and wear a helmet
Comment by laura — November 11, 2009 @ 6:46 am
Jon – I think it depends on whether one sees (or thinks God sees)Jesus/people as objects or subjects. Objects are manipulated by things external to themselves; subjects take control of their own purposes and actions.
Oh dear, now I sound like a record stuck in a groove (for those of you old enough to remember that!)
Comment by Pat — November 11, 2009 @ 8:36 am
anne droid, #17, the problem is that I AM driven, one of the key aspects of my Christian pilgrimage is to learn how not to be driven, to learn how to hear God’s well done and let that be enough for me…
a long way to go… sigh
a long way to go…
Comment by Caroline Too — November 11, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
But Caroline Too, can’t you see you’re driven to do that as well? You don’t have a long way to go at all – you’re there already, you just have to realise and believe it. The whole point is to NOT castigate yourself.
Comment by Tiggy — November 11, 2009 @ 5:45 pm
Caroline Too @ #24 I don’t know you so this is just a general thought not specific to you, and not meant to suggest that I know more about you than you do which would be ridiculous, but is being driven really a “problem”? I often wish I was more driven! (But only vaguely because real wishing would be too energetic for me, lol). Aren’t they just different ways of our brains being wired up? I think the world would be a lot worse off without the energy and productiveness of driven people.
Comment by AnneDroid — November 11, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
I properly laughed at this!! None of this writing LOL but not actually laughing outloud, I actually laughed!! Really funny. Nice one John.
Comment by Joe — November 12, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
thanks joe! it’s taken me 807 attempts to do a funny one, but i got there in the end.
Comment by jonbirch — November 12, 2009 @ 8:21 pm
I always write LOL in capitals when I HAVE actually laughed out loud.
Comment by Tiggy — November 12, 2009 @ 9:30 pm
I’m still laughing at the dog in 800. I think it’s because he’s going, ‘Ooh, ooh’ and it’s funny, a dog doing that. The fact that he’s talking didn’t seem odd at all for some reason! If I need cheering up, I only have to look at that picture.
Cheers.
Comment by Tiggy — November 12, 2009 @ 9:33 pm