A cartoon for my mate, Lily… She has a medical ethics thing going on at school. Please argue generously.
We see several versions of this.
Unfortunately many of them are young people who are gambling that they aren’t going to need health insurance and because it is so expensive, so they take the chance. ( I have several friends who are shaking those dice.)
The others are the sick people who eat horrible, smoke and drink heavily — and most their friends are the same and brag about scamming the system. They are a culture in and of themselves. (I have family like that)
Then today, we saw people in my clinic who really deserve care but are uninsured, and they get lumped with the two groups above. How can we fix this?
Sadly money can be very destructive in health care, as groups of service providers try to ‘offload’ parts of their responsibility – to save money!, however some specialist service also arise, where money is made available to independent services. so funding is just so complex
perhaps it is important for the public to reflect on what health care they feel is important, rather than just voting to ‘save the NHS’. – do we feel ok about the amount drug patents cost the NHS?, and other things the NHS funds?
for instance, someone may go to see their GP about a serious concern, and because the first response from the GP proved unhelpful, they may not push for further help, whilst their health gets slowly worse – they feel ‘I went to the Dr’s’. I’d like to see a plan to expect GP’s to follow up these patients rather than just wait to see if they come back, however how would that be funded?
I’d also like to see the money given to Harm Reduction Drug Treatment services shared with more diverse services that include abstinence, community and family support, and spiritual care’. so that harm reduction isn’t promoted as the only choice
ok, here’s a question for discussion – how would you like to see the NHS fund prayer services?
If the NHS throws away money on homeopathy, why not also on prayer services? [I was a former Homeopath]
i guess people can go to prayer services for free. as alt treatments go, that’s a pretty good deal.
here’s what i love about the national health service in the uk. at the point of need it’s free to everyone. that has to be worth protecting at all costs. yup, i get that others in different countries may see health as the individual’s responsibility… and yup, i get that some people get annoyed at having to throw money at the health care of others… i get that drugs companies rip us all off… i get that too much money is spent on ineffectual bureaucracy… i get that the nhs can often be a shambles… i get that the nurses are worked to death while consultants and expensive machinery lay idle at the weekends… but i believe that all these things can and should be fixed.
bevan, who set the nhs up, said the only way to get gp’s on side was to cross their palms with silver. he was right then and he’s right now, so the nhs will always be at the mercy of some… equally there will be those who continually cost the tax payers money because of their addictions or constant fighting etc… but, i believe that’s a small price to pay for free health care for everyone at the point of need. it’s one of the things that makes us civilised which is more than just veneer.
hopefully, come the next election, after the tories have done their worst, there will still be an nhs to fight for.
@Sabio Be careful what you say: you never know when tragedy/misfortune will befall you.
I, for one, am glad I live in a country which (for the time being) has universal healthcare. I would never wish cancer and the like on my worst enemy, but at least I know that should the worst happen, I won’t also face bankruptcy. That is how it should be in any nation that dares to describe itself as civilized.
May I ask, what was it in my comment that made you feel it was necessary to give me a warning?
I hear some of my American cousins speaking about the horror of having an NHS and having to pay tax so that other people can have fair equal treatment and access to health care and I just don’t understand their position. Maybe it’s because I have always paid tax towards a National Healthcare System that it doesn’t impact me the same. Having just had a knee operation on the NHS I am even more grateful for the process, I thought I would have to wait years to get my knee done and the truth is that within 4 months it has all been done…
Loving the asbo Jon :p
It’s easy for us to think this doesn’t happen here. I am a great believer in the NHS and think that mostly it is a good system. However there are a growing number of decisions being made about who can and can not have treatment- some hospital trusts deciding to not operate on people who are obese until they lose weight, different decisions being made all over the country about cancer treatments you can or can not have , depending on where you live due to the high cost of some these. Are these fairer than the system in the US?- I’m not sure.
And there I was thinking the person in the wheelchair was the person from Cartoon 1079 after s/he had been run over again and again….!
Not all doctors sit around doing nothing at weekends. Many work their backsides off, and many more would so if it were not for the european working directive which states that you can’t work more than 48 hours per week. Saturday and sunday = 48hours, so means that a consultant doing that shift can’t (in theory) work for the rest of the week. many of us are against that; how do you train a doctor in a 48 hour week? ( when I was trainiing we did 104 hours). the nurses also have to limit their hours to 48, but run a shift system which treats saturday and sunday like any other day.
hi geordie gilly… i’m sorry if i caused offense. not intended. what i meant was, that valuable resources are unused by the nhs at the weekends. from my experience it’s best only to get seriously ill between tuesday and thursday. all those billions of pounds worth of people and equipment and all those unused hours. i didn’t mean all doctors were lazy.
It’s OK, Jon, no offence taken. Just wanted to set the record straight. And there are some doctors who are in it for the wrong reasons!
I think it’s great that the NHS makes health care available for all, I can get my inhalers at the price of a prescription – which sometimes I have’t got. but I also think we have created health care in line with the things we hold in the highest esteem, science, drugs, and our own ability to fix things. I would love to see health care set in a less exclusive setting, along side gardens, and with funded chalpincies. i’d like to see art, poetry and creativity as a manditory part of all health centres and councelling funded in a similar way to drug research – as though our survival depended on it.
This one should be subtitled – “Why universal healthcare is important”
Re: “at the point of need it’s free to everyone.”
Well, in the immediate short term point of view, maybe. Thing is, the nurse’s paychecks and the clinic’s utility bills have to come from money which itself has to come from somewhere.
I live in the US and as you have heard there is quite a health care debate going on over here.
I’m on Social Security Disability and therefore government funded health care. And trying to convince my friends that government provided health care is not the costless utopia they appear to think it.
They talk about the cost of private health care – let me tell you what the government is taking from me for health care. I get around $850 a month in disability. From that, Medicare, Federally funded health care takes $42. Medicaid, State/Federal provided health care takes $120. Ad I still have copays. And I have a $1200 bill from an emergency room visit for the cots amount beyond what they covered. And they will only cover the cost of new glasses every 5 years. And they do not cover hearing aid (which I don’t need but my Dad does). And they do not cover dental. And … And … And …
During one part of the discussion I created a hypothetical insurance company with a million members. Figured 5% were seniors on the same $900 a month worth of prescriptions that Kathy was, and figured small percentages of other things – the money numbers got VERY big Very Quick. I asked my friends to demonstrate my numbers improbable – none did (which you only have my word for, sorry)
Forrest – You’ve not understood “free at the point of need”. If you’re taken ill and need to see GP/A&E Doctor, then at that time you don’t need to pay anything. Doctors don’t chase you out of the door if you don’t have insurance or enough money to pay for the treatment! The fact is, we do pay into the NHS – through the tax system.
Re: “Forrest – You’ve not understood “free at the point of need”. ”
Remember where I wrote the following?
“Re: “at the point of need it’s free to everyone.” Well, in the immediate short term point of view, maybe. ”
I have had the US equivalent of free at the point of need health care at Truman Medical Center Lakewood in Jackson County, Missouri – been there, done that.
It was also in my mind that the money to provide the setting, services, and materials was coming from somewhere, one way or another costing someone something from what they had earned. Thereby negating the literal meaning of the “to everyone”: no, it is costing someone somewhere something. Even private insurance works that way.
I have encountered so many people around me who appear either unwilling or downright not capable of getting beyond the word “free” in the phrase “free at the point of need”.
And the self-centered, and I’m going to say downright arrogant, attitude of “I don’t have to pay anything, look how good it is for me me me me me me – someone else is paying!” which some people around here appear to have developed needs to be squashed like a brick on a bug. How about giving thanks and appreciation for those who are making it possible?
Forrest – Sorry, my mistake. It seemed to me you’d misunderstood it – maybe you didn’t explain yourself very well.
That happens, my health is a mess with several things going on which even get to the point where I can’t focus enough to drive, or work on model boats and trains, or take in the direstions to thos models. Sometimes pages of text just turn in ti a grey mass.
Many old people finding they cant look after them selves due to phyical or mental deteriation, whose family’s can no longer cope, are not cared for in hospitals, but must enter a care home, and pay for their care untill they have a small amount left. That is unless someone requests their needs are assessed. Free care may be given if their needs are found to tick the right boxes, and depends if a panel thinks they are intense, complex and unpredictable
And the panels themselves tend to be complex and unpredictable.
Time to turn modern medicine on its head. We were never designed to be at the mercy of people who don’t care. Real freedom exists, and YHWH is gracious to show it to us. We just have to follow His arrows hither & yon.
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