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About jonbirch

animator, illustrator, character designer, graphic designer. music producer/recording musician. co-owner of PROOST. proost.co.uk
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47 Responses to 706

  1. Forrest says:

    Anger and frustration at sooooo many things, and for good reason is understandable, and anger can provide energy to apply to combating bad things; – here comes THAT word – but, for me, I have to dump thant anger if there’s going to be any energy to do the living of my life and loving of my family with.

  2. The Millers says:

    Anger can provide the fuel for fighting all that evil, but so can love (love for those being perpetrated against and for those doing the perpetrating). I think the same sorts of things can be demolished by both anger and love, but maybe doing it as part of God’s kingdom requires doing it out of love.

    “I hate that people discriminate against gays and lesbians, and it makes me so angry, I’m going to do something about it” vs. “I love gays and lesbians, and the poor schmucks who discriminate against them, so I’m going to have to do something about this problem.”

  3. Rich H says:

    Are love and anger mutually exclusive?

  4. Aubrey says:

    I dunno, God gets angry a lot, I think it is BECAUSE he loves us.

  5. Bo says:

    I say you can’t love truely if you’re not angry at/hate everything that destroy them.

    Which mean that we as christians should be quite angry people, though that anger would be directed against injustice, discrimination, abuse, addiction etc., not against other people.

  6. Bo says:

    Can’t love SOMEONE truely

  7. Kim says:

    Wow Jon. This one is very thought provoking for me currently.I’m in a phase of just not being able to get my head round the state of things, and unsure what -if any-the answers are?

    I work in the community with people who are in great distress and really dreadful circumstances. Often through their own ‘bad’ choices, some would say. But the backdrop behind that is of abuse, lack of education, lack of hope or encouragement etc.So who do I direct my anger at??

    I really believe that everyone’s life gets better when they have Jesus in it, but – and I’m araid to voice this really – in this life what would practically change in these lives? I wonder if I’ve seen too much, and now feel a bit hopeless about what change is possible.

    Hmm, feel a bit glum now, but its been really bothering me and its the first time I’ve said it out loud.

  8. duttyo says:

    i’m most angry that Iggy pop is trying to sell me car insurance!

  9. Robb says:

    Duttyo – some anger is riteous!

  10. miriworm says:

    Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger.
    Ephesians 4:26 :-0

  11. you missed out premiership footballers…. :-) And self-service supermarket checkouts!!!!!!!

  12. beatthedrum says:

    How about liberal all will go to heaven christians with no idea about hell and final judgement….

    :-) :-0

  13. beatthedrum says:

    Oh and “Christian Voice”

  14. Robb says:

    Wow – never heard of christian voice. Now I have something to be really angry about!

  15. gfeef says:

    i think that anger is good, to be angry shows hope, hope that things will change, can somehow change. it’s apathy that scares me more.
    I feel for you Kim (7) don’t lose hope.

  16. Hayles says:

    Agreed, apathy is incredibly dangerous.

  17. jonbirch says:

    i feel for you too, kim. maybe in your identifying with the plight of those you work with you are experiencing some of the hopelessness they may feel. real empathy is a wonderful thing and keeps the candle of hope burning. but it is hard to bear. be kind to your self.

  18. Robb says:

    Kim – having been in UPA parishes for years, there is something good and bad about the whole thing.

    You ask what would change? From my (and those I know) experience, often what happens is that when people from terrible backgrounds meet Jesus they see that life could be so much better with him. He inspires them to aim higher. They do…. and then they move out of the UPA.

    This leaves us with a problem in a UPA parish because the people who have gained social capital because Jesus has inspired them desert the UPA and leave the place with less social capital.

    So what do you do? Where do we go from here.

    Sorry… I now realise that this is quite off topic.

  19. Robb says:

    And a missing “?” to boot!!

    Must be Friday!

  20. jonbirch says:

    sometimes going off topic is the right thing to do. it’s an important conversation.

  21. love, anger, and a sense of humour are a good mix.

  22. beatthedrum says:

    #14 Robb my thoughts on christian voice can be found here http://beatthedrum.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/oi-christian-voice-shut-it/

    Kim its right for us to get angry with the situations we see around us, and it is also right for us to pour that anger out to God and confess it. Read the psalms there is a lot of anger there at the situations the psalmists find themselves in.


  23. yeah I hate the anger, it usually points to me trying to place the blame for ‘it’ on someone else.

  24. Jen says:

    Jon, what has dried fruit ever done to you? Or maybe we don’t want to know the answer to that question. And apologies for bringing a touch of shallowness to a serious conversation!

  25. rebecca says:

    I was going to ask about dried fruit as well, given that I’m eating some right now (pineapple, from Tropical Wholefoods. It’s really nice).

    Now for a more serious point. Of course love and anger can go together — both are likely to involve burning with passion. What makes me most angry are injustices inflicted on other people (injustices inflicted on me tend to make me upset rather than angry) — so perhaps my anger is an expression of love.

    There is an Iona song entitled “Inspired by love and anger” — this title almost looks like a cliché.

  26. Sophie says:

    I’ve spent the last few days being really grumpy, so I can relate to the poor cartoon person!

    nathan the alien I agree – I have found that anger can often be me trying to blame someone else for something – usually if I realise this and ask myself really what I’m upset about, and if I can admit that I’m really angry with myself, it helps me to calm down.

    On the other hand I have also discovered that anger can be a real driving force, and can be really fruitful. I read an article about the lack of drugs for diseases that affect people in developing countries, and thought I could maybe use my science degree to do something useful. I’m enjoying my work, it’s been a real gift, and there’s a (not huge) chance I could end up finding something useful.

    I suppose it’s good to learn the difference between productive anger and anger that chews me up from the inside and makes me unpleasant to be around.

  27. Will says:

    love the fact that only 2 actual people get a mention. Tony and Simon! I too agree whole heartedly.

    Hate the fact that in many ways i buy into all the stuff i hate. And don’t do the things i know i should (mmm may be a bible verse in that somewhere)

  28. Welshdisastergirl says:

    I think our own part in it is really important, and i really struggle with how my lifestyle perpetuates injustice etc… even if you try to buy fairtrade boycott 50 companies, buy local, make your own clothes and turn off all your lights!

    but i’ve bee reading esther… and i think maybe using our unique position in the face of injustice is the liberating idea, so although those things are ace to do, maybe identifying your unique insight of influence ‘for such a time as this’ is more important.

    also we are weak… but we have a lot of freedom compared to loads of other societies… so we can porotest, send letters, boycott, use our buying power etc…. so lets do it! in fact maybe if we stopped thinking of just ourselves individuals then we would realise how much power we have

    and things do change… like dairy milk going fairtrade… that is fab!! lets see more!!! woooooop

    turn anger into change!!!

  29. Caroline Too says:

    Golly, BTD… the Christian Voice guys would have loved your comment #12!

  30. Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger.Ephesians 4:26
    well the sun’s got about 5 billion years to go so that should be long enough!

    Kim – Direct your anger into the work you are doing, this is the word as it should be.

  31. Andy M says:

    It isn’t often that I hear my own thoughts being said by someone else.

  32. Carole says:

    I got bemused about this a few months back on facebook…”Why is Iggy Pop advertising car insurance?” I railed…My mate Paul, ever the wit, came back with, “Because he’s a passenger!” Can’t argue with that!

  33. Kim says:

    Thanks everyone, I felt so much better for having just said that, and your comments and experiences are really helpful.

    I think when the project I’m working on (taking about 350 volunteers from churches out to do gardening/decorating etc for people living in an area that looks like Beirut)I’m going to really look into my Bible, ask people who are also out there but more experienced how they keep hope etc and see if I can come to a better understanding.

    Some of the answer I know just lies in learning to live with that tension of the kingdom now, and not yet. And I can’t give up trying to make a tiny bit of it a little better, however futile it sometimes appears.

  34. rachel says:

    Yes! Yes! I’m angry about all of that too! And more!

    Glad it’s not just me… :-)

  35. jonbirch says:

    you sound wise, kim.

  36. Kim says:

    Bless ya Jon – made me laugh at the end of a tough day ;-))

    Am not very wise at all – look fwd to a bit more of it as I advance in years :lol:

  37. Kim says:

    Hmm, this is an interesting new toy isn’t it?! Am now replying to my own previous reply!

  38. Ros says:

    Wow. I’m angry about most of that stuff! :D

  39. Forrest says:

    On the love and anger bit: especially Re: #3 by RichH “Are love and anger mutually exclusive?”
    Sometimes they are the same. Example, currently Kathy is angry at her son & daughter-in-law about something they are doing which ain’t real bright.
    In this example, Kathy’s anger comes out of fear that they, and the grandkids, will wind up getting hurt in the deal.
    She does not want those she loves to get hurt – pain which she would feel in empathy – because they are something/someone she loves.

    If Kathy did not love them, would she care enough to feel angry?
    To have empathic pain with their hurt?

    Apathy, the opposite of love, would at best lead to a “Yeah, so what. Whatever. Why should I care?” kind of attitude toward the events and the people involved.

  40. Kim says:

    Just a response to Robb’s earlier point about people moving out of tough areas when they meet Jesus.

    I think thats ok and right. It probably has to be that way at that time, as part of their cycle of change. Others, who are further down the road in their experience, get called by the Lord to go to those places and live there, do home mission or estates ministry or whatever name you give it.

    They model a good healthy lifestyle and develop people and capacity there. Its cyclic, and it depends on people being willing to be sent to tough and unglamorous places, hearing and obeying the call even if thats a hard calling. (I always wonder why so many people are called to nice warm places overseas but not to grotty places here :lol: )

    just a thought anyway

  41. Ben says:

    I’m becoming increasingly angry with people’s intolerance about other intolerances.

  42. Ben says:

    I’m becoming increasingly angry with people’s intolerance about other’s intolerances.

  43. jonbirch says:

    wise people hardly ever think they’re wise, kim. :-)

  44. Kim says:

    am happy to be categorised as the foolish cos then I’m chosen :lol: and its where i firmly belong!!

  45. beatthedrum says:

    im not only foolish im down right stooopid… or is that me boasting!


  46. Anna Joy says:

    This is so true for me.

    Oy vey and amen.

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