subo’s rant on 784 led to this. never apologise for a good rant, subo. :-)


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About jonbirch

animator, illustrator, character designer, graphic designer. music producer/recording musician. co-owner of PROOST. proost.co.uk
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33 Responses to 785

  1. I could rant and rant and rant about this. just trying having clinical depression while still going to church… finally, i took 3 years out, time to recover.
    That’s sad. We should NEVER have to leave church to recover from stuff. Ugh.

  2. subo says:

    hey, cheers.

  3. Caroline Too says:

    I got over ‘it’ 17 years ago…

    trouble is ‘it’ didn’t find that I’d got over ‘it’ until a couple
    of years ago

    and even now

    ‘it’ tries to raise ‘it’s’ ugly head every now and again in the
    hope that I will give ‘it’ house room

    and sometimes I do

    which gives ‘it’ a chance to hurt

    but those times are shorter now

    and I’m almost hoping that ‘it’

    will give up and lie down


    well, pigs fly don’t they?

  4. Tiggy says:

    I don’t remember Jesus saying that about a bruised reed. Can someone give me the reference please?

    Doing anything with depression is difficult. Going to church can feel doubly worse because you feel people should care rather than feeling uncomfortable about it.

    I think where I go now they are quite good at understanding how depression affects things. One of the church leaders had bad depression and had to go on anti-depressants and I feel that people th ere DO care if I’m very sad, but often people don’t know what to do. I mean I don’t know what to do either and I’ve had my whole life to get used to it so I can’t blame them.

    What I have is more an ongoing feeling of bereavement though. I don’t know if that’s atypical or if most people’s depression consists largely of that sort of feeling. I guess that’s what Freud’s ‘Mourning and Melancholia’ is about – hmm, just thought of that. Will have to read it.

  5. Caroline Too says:

    it wasn’t Jesus, you’re right Tiggy

    the reference is Isaiah, 42:3

    but that is one of the passages that are generally taken to be prophecies about the messiah.

    it is a favourite verse of mine,

  6. Tiggy says:

    Not Jesus, ah maybe some other messiah then? lol

  7. youthworkerpete says:

    Isn’t there the danger on this esteemed site that, if the person to the right was swapped to the usual church graphic, we would be the unfeeling finger-wagger to the left?

  8. Tiggy says:

    Personally….I can’t follow that sentence.

    Hold on though….it all gets a bit circular. I suppose it depends on what one’s criticism of the church is. But I’ve spent too long arguing about Cuba – my brain is done in.

  9. Forrest says:

    This can go 2 ways.

    Interesting to see that white shirt dude knows how much time God has set aside for olive shirt guy’s healing to take.

    And that God apparently hasn’t passed that info to olive shirt guy.


    “You aren’t the same as me, therefore you are defective.”

    Now, that said, it is possible to get hung up on something, ruminate, ruminate, ruminate, and ruminate some more.
    And someone may need to supply a “jump start” to climbing out of that rut.

  10. Tiggy says:

    Wouldn’t, ‘a bunk-up’ be a more appropriate metaphor, given that it’s climbing out of something? A ‘jump start’ sounds a bit like shock treatment and could go horribly wrong, but lifting someone up is usually good as long as the person appreciates that not everyone is up to climbing.

  11. jonbirch says:

    i think i know what you mean, youthworkerpete. and yes, that is the danger. whether it’s the danger with this site or a danger for us all to be aware of is the question.

  12. Forrest says:

    Over here, I have no idea what ‘a bunk-up’ is.

    Unless it’s where you are sleeping in the 3 level bunks in an Army Barracks

  13. Tiggy says:

    Forrest – it’s when someone is climbing up somewhere and you give them a lift up the first bit, like usually with your cupped hands under one foot or sometimes by them standing on your back. I dunno, don’t think I’ve ever had one – probably too heavy. They do it a lot in old war films, like when they’re escaping from Colditz etc. I suppose it derives from helping someone into an upper bunk.

  14. I’ve found a lot of churches with attitudes like this to depression or similar. Come to that I’ve found some that caused it and then talked at their victims like this.

    As an aside, that’s why I find ‘Testimony time’ so difficult: The ones I go to seem to feature people who had problems in the past but everything is alright now, because God dealt with it. This isn’t much help to anyone who isn’t ‘better’. I understand the importance of saying what God is doing, but it always seems to tip in this direction, and stories become ever more dramatic and irrelevant.

    I guess there is a happy medium: Anyone know of one?

  15. gilly says:

    ummmm, tad too close for comfort that one.
    still covering scars from those type of conversations.

    isn’t it often easier for us to talk….than to listen and just be?

  16. Miriworm says:

    What about the smoldering wick? :-)

    Matthew 12:15 Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. Many followed him, and he healed all their sick, 16warning them not to tell who he was. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
    18″Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
    19He will not quarrel or cry out;
    no one will hear his voice in the streets.
    20A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
    21In his name the nations will put their hope.”

  17. youthworkerpete says:

    Jon – Definitely the danger of us all. I’m sure, whether it’s towards and individual or an institution, we all have someone we would like to say ‘haven’t you had long enough to sort yourself out!’ to.

    Unless, of course, you are all more patient than I am!

  18. jonbirch says:

    i’ve had to be pretty patient with myself over the years. learning to be patient with myself has definitely affected the way i respond to others. the person i most want to say ‘sort yourself out’ to is myself. i wonder whether for some, learning to extend grace to yourself is the beginning of learning to extend it to others. having said that, i’ve known many who are gracious to others and hard on themselves.
    i often wonder what paul’s thorn in the side was. i know what mine is.

  19. Robb says:

    I have encountered people who dispense “Jesus should have healed you by now” ministry but not in years. I don’t tend to turn on GodTV so I manage to pretend that it doesn’t happen.

    *runs screaming from the crazyness*

  20. Forrest says:

    Re: #14 “I guess there is a happy medium: Anyone know of one?”
    Madam Rue on Thirty-Fourth and Vine?

  21. Carole says:

    Forrest – :lol:

  22. rockingRev says:

    I remember when I was training to be a scientist, before I went into the ministry I was part of a small group in our student village who got together for prayer each night at the end of our studies. there was one night when a more Pentecostal person joined us and after we had sung a bit and prayed a bit he admitted he was confused because I have a physical disability caused by brain damage when I was a baby and he could not understand why God had not cured me yet. He was obviously very distressed because he felt that I should be cured. However I have discovered in my pastoral work that the disability is actually a blessing quite often. I think we should all reflect on God’s words to Job, “Who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge?” People who expect themselves or others to be healed in their time and not God’s are always going to be in for a shock.

  23. jonbirch says:

    quite right, rocking rev. :-)

    forrest… hahaha! :lol:

  24. Kim says:

    The more I look at this, the more I think it likely that the one on the right is preparing to chin the one on the left :lol:

  25. Tiggy says:

    Yeah, give ‘im ‘eadbutts!

    (reference to ’80s song – no idea which)

    Lol, Forrest I thought you were referring to a drag queen when you said Madame Rue. I used to know a very happy medium called Audrey who worked in our library.

    At our Bible study group today people were saying it actually seem to get harder after you become a Christian. One lady said she felt more stuff coming to the surface that she needed to sort out and that you tend to challenge yourself more. Maybe we become more introspective like Augustine who allegedly wrote the first biography apart from stuff like My Campaigns in Germany by J. Caesar.

    The group has decided that each week one of us will ‘tell our story’, but I’m not at all sure I feel up to it or want to. It feels too painful, especially in a group setting at lunchtime, and I’m not sure I want them to know. It’s too hard and complicated for me to make sense of myself, let alone having a bunch of other people trying to.

    I do have a lot of patience with people not being able to sort themselves out and I’m friends with someone whom everyone in Bath knows to be a ‘difficult case’ and seems to have given up on. If someone I know is a mess it just means I can relate to them more so I still enjoy their company. :-)

    I don’t necessarily see brokenness as a problem. Anyone know that song by ‘I am Jen’, ‘Broken in all the right places’?

  26. Forrest says:

    “Lol, Forrest I thought you were referring to a drag queen when you said Madame Rue. I used to know a very happy medium called Audrey who worked in our library.”

    Say, how many people know the ‘oldies’ song that reference is to?

  27. becky says:

    What someone said to me that I find helpful is that in the broken bread we’re all broken but when we feed ourselves we come together. But we’re still broken. It’s just that some folks put on much better fronts – e.g., a narcissist can be more charming and personable than someone who is in the throes of a depression but both are equally alone.

  28. subo says:

    sometimes it feels as though churches ‘identify’ your ‘status’, and work consistantly to maintain it for you

  29. Kayte says:

    Rocking rev @23 – hey I found that really helpful- it reminded of a book I read where it talked about Jesus as the ‘wounded healer,’ as even in in his resurrection body he bore the wounds of the crucifixon, and was looking at this as a model for ministry; acknowledging our own brokeness, and allowing us to minister through that to bring comfort and hope to others. Jon, i find a of lot of this here at asbo! And I appreciate it.
    I’ve also had struggles with depression, also had hideous experiences of well meaning people trying to cast demons out of me! I can laugh now, but at the time it was quite counter produtive!

  30. Tiggy says:

    Shudder! We caught some kid from the Christian Union at my university, trying to exorcise our friend who was schizophrenic.

  31. subo says:

    hiya rockingRev, agree ‘disability is actually a blessing quite often’, am sure your much more of a blessing than you’ll ever know

    I remember as a scared kid, praying God wouldn’t heal me – or do anything weird, as I was dragged around the range of ranting wild healers, – why does healing involve going up the front, and giving away any sense of privacy?

  32. chris says:

    Subo, your comment made me so sad for all he kids who have to go through that. so unfair.

  33. subo says:

    thanks Chris

    it makes one value the good stuff though, like TaizĂ© where Bro Roger used to speak about God’s love and understanding of us

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