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About jonbirch

animator, illustrator, character designer, graphic designer. music producer/recording musician. co-owner of PROOST. proost.co.uk
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25 Responses to 1015

  1. preachersa2z says:

    Couldn’t agree more Jon. Maybe you saw this post last week? “Spot the difference”: http://richardlittledale.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/spot-the-difference/

  2. Marcus says:

    I was so saddened to see the terrible response of people cheering in the streets over one man’s death – even if he was a terrorist – where is the salt and light in such scenes? It seems like we haven’t moved on a great deal since 2000 years ago.

  3. si says:

    saw a great piece in the huffington post and also lots of folk facebooking MLK quotes to counterbalance the celebration of his death.
    and i went looking for this – http://www.gregorybenton.com/treasure.html – which has always seemed like a very measured and sensitive response to the horrors of 9/11…

  4. jonbirch says:

    preachersa2z… interesting blog post. i’ve read a bit of american press recently and one church leader was citing the psalms as a reason why it’s okay or even a great thing to delight in the slaying of ones enemies. i have to say, those psalm passages always make me uncomfortable and i’ve never thought of them as a teaching on how i behave. i always thought the psalms contained the best and worst of human nature.

    marcus… agreed. i do, i think, understand why some who have lost loved ones would react this way. but that is why victims of horrible events are not on the jury in the court case… law must be about justice and not about retribution.

    si… will take a look.

  5. true true … although I don’t feel qualified to comment …

  6. goodfield says:

    Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

    John 8:7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

  7. subo says:

    only the totally secure and over privileged can have the comfort of saying ‘it leaves a bad taste in my mouth’ instead of doing something

    respect to Desmond Tutu, for doing & saying something pro-active

  8. Nick says:

    I couldn’t agree more. I read quite a lot of American blogs and I really struggled with some of them. Did you see Tom Wrights views?

    I also wrote about this at my blog which you can look at here if you get time/inclination…


  9. chris says:

    here’s another awesome blog post from Greg Boyd on capital punishment.


  10. Sarah says:

    We just fractionalise our lives so that things don’t affect us, then they affect us in a shock and it’s overmuch and disjointed.

  11. Carole says:

    I have not lost anyone as a result of terrorism, so I can’t really speak for other people. I suppose, for myself, the death of the figurehead of terror didn’t provoke the response I might have expected – similar to when Saddam Hussein was executed. I guess revenge isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

  12. I upset a few of my colleagues by suggesting that Osama was innocent before the eyes of the law, as the evidence against him wasn’t placed before a court. Even the Nazi’s were tried for their crimes, and they were responsible for deaths measured in millions, not thousands.

    My thoughts on the matter are over on my blog here:

  13. jonny mcewen says:

    Interesting angle on this on “this american life” podcast… a great interview with a sensitive young woman, trying to explain what the spontaneous celebrations where about. She talked about living with an un-named fear since the age of 10… and just needing some release. The death of Bin Laden triggered something unexpected for her. Anyways.. worth a listen


  14. subo says:

    thanks jonny mcewen, i share a sense of surprise, and a bit of relief, that he’s been found

    I know I’d feel more comfortable if he’d come along for a fair trial, – but I can share an uncertainty about flying in a helicopter, leaving an inhospitable country, and travelling with someone who’d pushed the bound of suicide bomber further than we’d imagine
    – the guy’s who risked their lives on this raid probably wanted to minimise further risks

    Tim recently bought a copy of Victor Frankl ‘Man’s Search For Meaning: The classic tribute to hope from the Holocaust’, it’s unnerving to be reminded of the cruelty humans can commit, though I think it’s important to remember – and look closely at the illusion of being able to fix everything

  15. sunil says:

    It does nothing to reduce the discomfort that I feel when a security officer stares at my bearded brown self.

  16. Theophilus says:

    I will not rejoice in the death of one man, but I will be saddened that he and us see life too cheaply. I will not rejoice in the death of one man, but I will be saddened that evil so over takes both him and us that we become blind to who we are. I will not rejoice in the death of one man, but I will be saddened that we all spread the seeds of conflict and hatred. I WILL rejoice in the death of one man who died on a cross to save the world from itself – here is our hope for justice, peace, overcoming evil and the transformation of the world.

  17. jonbirch says:

    hi sunil… that’s horrible. :-(

  18. Ros says:

    I felt so uncomfortable watching people celebrate, but I guess when people view others as less than human these things happen.

  19. TomC says:

    . “Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.” MLK Jr.

    I live in New York City. Emotions here run very deep when it comes to terrorism and the wounds caused by bin laden almost a decade ago on Sept 11th 2001 are still very open and raw here. Those attacks struck the people here very personally and in many ways I do understand the reaction to the death of the man behind the pain. Here, it was personal. But, I have never been comfortable with some of the attitudes here. I remember being behind a car with two bumper stickers, one, an Ichthus fish, the other simply said “9-11-01, never forget, never forgive.” I was deeply troubled by the idea of someone proclaiming to be Christian also proudly rejecting the idea of forgiveness. Forgiveness and grace are at the very heart of our faith. to reject the very possibility of forgiveness is to reject the cross itself

    Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound
    that saved a wretch like me,
    I once was lost but now I’m found
    Was blind but now I see

    I am utterly opposed to the death penalty but I cannot say that the death of Bin Laden was unjust. He was a soldier killed in battle in a war he started. He was a murderer, twisted by hatred. His death probably saved many lives and I do not condemn it.

    I will not however celebrate a lost soul. Grace alone gives my life hope and without Grace I am nothing. I will pray for light , hope and life. I will pray for those lost in hatred and darkness.

    I will pray for Grace

  20. subo says:

    amen TomC. let grace abound

    it’s heart breaking to see this problem escalating – indiscriminately
    and what can we do as we watch relationships between America and Pakistan become more bitter?

    I don’t know, but I know the church is supposed to bring God’s vision of community to life, so people can catch on
    as we can often only taste and see Gods love through each other

  21. Forrest says:

    Even though I am American, vividly remember watching 9/11 coverage, and have several family members in the military, including my brother in Afghanistan, I neither danced & cheered, nor not-danced & not-cheered.
    I am not going to begrudge any given individual their reaction, I am not them, have not lived their life, have not felt their feelings.
    Would expect a large cause of my own subdued reaction was that I am not convinced that all is what it seems. Haven’t got a specific definition of how so, I just have that feeling.

  22. Sarah says:

    Nothing is what it seems Forrest.

  23. Forrest says:

    I’m what I seem.
    I think.

  24. linus says:

    I like that, Forrest. I think that’s quite profound. I’m not sure if i’m what i seem. I think i’d like to be. Do i seem to be what i seem to you?

  25. Sarah says:

    Individuals are one thing honey, the mist of mass movements is quite another. imo! :-)

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